Permanent Delete

[RonH]

I'm considering selling my W11 i5 laptop. There appear to be a number of possibilities for permanently deleting files so that they are wiped from the disc ... non recoverable by sophisticated software.

Any recommendations It's OK to leave the current version update of Windows 11?

[John Gray]

There are a staggering number of places where "personal files" could be lurking on your C: drive - if nowhere else - so you would need to find a program which recognises all the places where these files might lurk! I'm thinking of temporary files, history information, and caches from browsers, downloads, profiles for Windows, browsers, and so on... Perhaps easiest to create a completely new (administrator) User, and delete all other users and their files.

After you've done that, you might like to try CCleaner's Tools -> Drive Wiper -> Wipe Free Space Only option (at least that's what it is in my otherwise-unused ancient version)! Note that it creates dummy files (probably completely full of 0x00 bytes or similar) to fill completely the empty space, VERY SLOWLY, then removes them at the end.

Or reinstall Windows from scratch?

[stuck]

If your laptop has a HDD then John's idea is probably as good as you'll get. My version of it would be:
* use Revo Unistaller (free) version to remove all applications
* run Ccleaner in an aggressive mode (e.g. secure deletion, 7 passes or more, with' wipe alternate data stream's and 'wipe cluster tips' ticked)
* create a new (Admin) user and then use it to delete all other users
* probably run Ccleaner again
* Finally, tick the 'wipe free space' option in Ccleaner, and set it going overnight, it might be done by the morning.

If your laptop has a SSD then it is notoriously difficult to wipe clean such a drive. Having said that, John's suggestion is still probably your best bet.

Stuart might have a better idea as to how best to clean a SSD.

Ken

[RonH]

Thanks both for your valuable advice. Fortunately my i5 is HDD, being of the old school though not so old. Still fully functional & reasonably fast. I only upgraded because DeVinci video editor is rather hungry.

[JoeP]

See How to wipe your PC before selling for a step-by-step guide. If you purchased the device from a big name vendor the factory supplied recovery partition allows you to do a factory reset. The procedure depends on the vendor.

[RonH]

Up to now I have followed this from Joe:
https://www.supportyourtech.com/tech/ho ... step-guide

However once the pc reboots, to update the Windows 11, first you have to get access to wifi and then to your Microsoft account eg Outlook email address. Actioned ... but I will obviously look to create a new email that I will never use and delete my own. This will enable me to follow some of the other procedures advised in this thread and then demonstrate that the laptop is fully functional to a purchaser via my wifi.

You cannot use windows 11 without having a registered account ... alternatively I wipe all and do not do an initial set up but I am guessing that a buyer would want operational evidence.

[RonH]

Went to try CCleaner suggestions but Wipe Drive not functioning on Free version.

I am concluding that I will again Reset the laptop and not proceed with any of the necessary prompts ... at least if sold the start up procedure will be visible.

[RonH]

Idiot ... me!
Of course this i5 has SSD so the best I can do (I think) would be to restore using the Windows 11 Settings facility.
Correct

[ChrisGreaves]

Idiot ... me! Of course this i5 has SSD so the best I can do (I think) would be to restore using the Windows 11 Settings facility. Correct

At first glance I thought that I knew so little about cleaning a computer for resale, but then I saw your gambit "Idiot ... me! " and took courage.

I note two points that you raise:-
(1) The prospect wants to see the computer working and
(2) You want to purge the disk.

If this will be a face-to-face sale, where the user meets with you to exchange cash and computer, then surely it is worth it for both of you to spend a half-hour together; either of you would spend less time in a store, yes?

You meet in the cafe, plug in the computer, boot it up and say "Look! It Works!!!"
The prospect agrees.
You then instigate the factory reset procedure, but insist on having the cash in hand while the Prospect chooses "Yes" (or whatever the answer is) to begin the factory reset.

There must be a divide, a watershed, where your data is guaranteed gone (except for a forensic recovery by MI5 or the CIA) and you hold the cash?

Of course, I might be an idiot. Suppose that you make a complete system backup on a boot-able recovery drive before heading off to the cafe, and that your Prospect backs out shortly after clicking "Yes". The prospect powers off and unplugs the computer partway through the factory reset.
Will your at-home recovery be able to re-instate your system from it's partially-reset state?

Cheers, Chris

[RonH]

Hei Chris,
Thanks for your comments.
A further study of SSD indicates that this storage device is easier to clean than HDD in that when one deletes a file/folder it is permanently deleted from the SSD.

So, I have opted to continue with the Microsoft Restore and actioned it 2x... need the practice! I will leave it with the Windows reinstalled again and if I get a buyer then they can input their details if they want to further test. I can easily provide access to my wifi for this purpose. As a further safeguard I looked at my Microsoft account page and disconnected this i5. Interestingly I also found a long ago 'smashed up' HP device still listed in Play Store... sorted

I guess that I seem 'paranoid' but this is the first laptop that I plan to sell ... prior devices were easily solved by wrecking their HDD's plus general distruction for experience of construction

[ChrisGreaves]

I guess that I seem 'paranoid' ...

Hah!
Compared to me, everyone else is The Queen Mother!

Unlike everyone else, I tend not to "clean and resell" their old PCs, I tend to hang on to them, just-in-case.
Which is why the Win11 Laptop which I bought almost two years ago is labelled "LT08", and this Win7 DELL is dear old "LT02".
Cheers, Chris

[JoeP]

Try this article - How to factory reset Windows 11. Choose to reinstall Windows locally and you won't need an internet connection.

[RonH]

Thanks Joe,
I had followed your earlier advice 'Support your Tech. This did not enter into' Change Settings'which I assumed simply meant 'change what you have entered', not a Data Erase toggle. I understood that all personal records were deleted... reinstalled Windows from the cloud.

Very confusing I can do it again to include this extra. Should I? There seem to be varying 'solutions' on the web ... Microsoft's article doesn't highlight this extra stage. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/acc ... %20Windows.

[RonH]

Further looking into SSD, laptop internal storage, PCWorld states the following ... similar to one of my posts above:

Internal solid-state drives: Solid-state drives use a feature called TRIM. When you delete a file from a solid-state drive, the operating system informs the drive that the file was deleted. The drive then erases the file’s data from its memory cells. This is done to speed things up—it’s faster to write to empty cells—but it has the benefit of ensuring files you delete from internal SSDs can’t be recovered.

What are the facts

[ChrisGreaves]

... —it’s faster to write to empty cells— ...

This sounds a bit like good old core memory wherein [shaky ground] reading the polarity of a core reversed that core's polarity, so the original polarity had to be written back into core.[/shaky ground]
Proponents of the single-instruction computer will feel comfortable with this.

Presumably if SSD can identify "cleaned" memory, then it need not worry about re-setting an original value?
Cheers, Chris

[JoeP]

If you have successfully reinstalled Windows 11, there is no reason to reinstall it again unless you want to go through the step to wipe data. I don't think that is necessary.

[RonH]

Thanks Joe.
Will leave as is, ready for new user input.
Now the challenge to sell... folk here like expensive toys so maybe my Lenovo will just remain as an 'experimental device' for me