Solar Eclipse 2024

[PJ_in_FL]

I have my afternoon planned for Monday, April 8th, at a little resort in Texas.

Simulation

Anyone else making plans for that day?

[ChrisGreaves]

Anyone else making plans for that day?

For Sure!!
I'll be shoveling

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But just to see what I'll be missing (Funny sort of double-negative there, if I am missing seeing the part of the sun that is missing ...) I ran the simulation, and realized that the only total solar eclipses I've seen have had a very dark brown shadow across the sun.
Might be worth hiking to Texas to see a blue shadow.
You want to pick me up along the way? I'll buy lunch ...
Cheers, Chris

[Graeme]

Sadly, I'll only be able to get as close as a laptop screen view of the event.

The US has had a good share of solar eclipses over the last couple of years! I hope you enjoy the April 24 one. Will you be taking a picture?

Regards

Graeme

[Graeme]

Might be worth hiking to Texas to see a blue shadow.

Chris, you won't need to hike to Texas, you just have to stroll up the road and have a gander from Gander!

April 24 Eclipse_el.jpg

[ChrisGreaves]

Chris, you won't need to hike to Texas, you just have to stroll up the road and have a gander from Gander!

Thanks, Graeme, but aren't you forgetting "Chance of rain showers or flurries; Periods of drizzle; Chance of showers; Showers; Cloudy periods; A mix of sun and cloud"?, and with my luck the moon will blot out the only half-hour of sunshine on the one day we get some sun!

Too bad I can't have a goose at Goose Bay. I've already had several ganders at Gander. No matter how many times I drive past it (5), it always looks the same from the TCH.

Nice map! Kinda fun to choose an alternate state of the same colour to live in.

Looking at the track made me think:-
(1) Can the track of a solar eclipse ever follow a path-of-latitude? ('d accept a track that didn't waver more than +-2 degrees from start of totality to end of totality; say 280 miles wide?
(2) The apparent angle of the track, relative to our lines of latitude, should not effect the duration of totality, because to the Sun and Moon, the Earth is just a sphere (OK, an oblate spheroid) in orbit around the sun, and Earth's rotation about its axis is irrelevant.
(3) That said, that Earth's inclination of 23 degrees suggests that tropical regions are the most likely to experience the longest durations of totality, and hence are, in a strange way, the best places to live if you like occasional periods of shade?
Thanks, Chris

[kdock]

My charming husband and I are going to visit my best friend and her charming husband in south western Illinois, right under the path!

[GeoffW]

My charming husband and I ...

And you call him your charming husband to distinguish him from your other husband?

Many years ago, I travelled a couple of hours to experience a total solar eclipse. It was quite cloudy on the day. While we experienced darkness, we didn't get to see the eclipse itself. Which was quite a let down, as I had experienced darkness a few hours before.

[Graeme]

Thanks, Graeme, but aren't you forgetting "Chance of rain showers or flurries; Periods of drizzle; Chance of showers; Showers; Cloudy periods; A mix of sun and cloud"?, and with my luck the moo will blot out the only half-hour of sunshine on the one day we get some sun!

If you mean the Moon, that's exactly what will happen! And even if it's cloudy you will still experience that eerie day turns to night for a minute or two thing. If you have cows blocking out the Sun where you are, then you best run!

Looking at the track made me think:-
(1) Can the track of a solar eclipse ever follow a path-of-latitude? ('d accept a track that didn't waver more than +-2 degrees from start of totality to end of totality; say 280 miles wide?

Sitting here staring out the window at my observatory build and contemplating the geometry of the event, I would say no. The orbit of the Moon is inclined to the plane of the ecliptic and all the bodies involved are moving in circular paths. Also: https://www.eclipsewise.com/solar/solar.html

(2) The apparent angle of the track, relative to our lines of latitude, should not effect the duration of totality, because to the Sun and Moon, the Earth is just a sphere (OK, an oblate spheroid) in orbit around the sun, and Earth's rotation about its axis is irrelevant.

Yeah, had to read that a few times, still on my first coffee! Perhaps not latitude exactly, but the distance of the point of the shadow from the centre of the Earth to the edge of the Earth (as seen from the Moon) is relevant and is the cause of a hybrid solar eclipse, which is yet another proof of the Earth being a sphere!

(3) That said, that Earth's inclination of 23 degrees suggests that tropical regions are the most likely to experience the longest durations of totality, and hence are, in a strange way, the best places to live if you like occasional periods of shade?

Looking at the image int the elipsewise.com link above, your assumption appears to be incorrect. Can I have another coffee now?

Graeme

[ChrisGreaves]

For those of you who would like an Australian view, this ABS video discusses both the eclipse and the satellite pollution.

A summary written by me follows.

The reporter pronounces “Exmuth” as “Exmouth”, but you’ll get used to it.

The total eclipse I remember best was in Mount Gambier 1977, I think. I hosted a dinner in Gawler north of Adelaide then drove through the night to reach Mount Gambier for the total.

I remember the darkness, the birds and farm animals – cows and horses mainly – galloping around. The partial in Perth (1973/74) I remember as the thousands of brilliant crescents (crescent suns, I suspect) dancing around on the ground in the shadows of the gum trees. As if thousands of tiny electric lights had been embedded in the asphalt and the concrete paving stones.

Around the 02m30s mark the reporter enthuses about the total “darkness like night”, but my memory is of a dusk-like time.
More than the darkness I remember the chill. When you turn off the Australian sun in November(?) you go from a pleasant 30c to an awful 15(?)c in about a minute. Imagine walking from the beach into a banana chiller room. At the 04m48s point “a tingling feeling all over your body”
I suspect that the bulk of the cheers as the sun came back were an animal reaction to the warmth, rather than the light.

Discussion of our (shared!) night sky begins at 04m20s.

05m15s “up at the Milky way”, remember that Earth’s 23º inclination to Sun’s orbit is added to Sun’s inclination of about 60° from the galactic plane, so if I’ve got that right (Graeme?) Earth’s axis is tilted at 83º to the galactic plane. Which means that Australians get to peer into the centre of the Milky Way.

Visitors returning from Australia exclaim about “The Stars” and credit the brilliance to the clear desert skies, but I remember Adelaide in 1970 as covered by a layer of petrochemical smog from the cars. Light pollution is abundant in Australian towns and cities.

Reference 06m30s.

09m40s (in ten years, we will see) “from 100,000 to 500,000 objects in the sky”

12m18s what I think are satellite tracks across the skies.

Cheers, Chris

[ChrisGreaves]

If you have cows blocking out the Sun where you are, then you best run!

Agreed. In a separate post I remember the farm animals going crazy. Too I remember the birds circling aimlessly, thinking that they had to roost for the night. That was eerie.

(1) Can the track of a solar eclipse ever follow a path-of-latitude?

... I would say no. The orbit of the Moon is inclined to the plane of the ecliptic ...

So roughly speaking, that is why the moon’s shadow’s path “wanders” to and fro across the equator.
I suspect that an alternate view is to think of lines of latitude as a human construction whose reference point is the Earth’s rotational axis, but the randomness of the aggregation of galactic dust pretty well guarantees that this earth-based regularity (Parallel lines running around the Earth) is destroyed once we accept the randomness of the universe.

... relative to our lines of latitude,

... the distance of the point of the shadow from the centre of the Earth to the edge of the Earth

Yep. Thanks. You have a much better quality of coffee than do I

... suggests that tropical regions are the most likely to experience the longest durations of totality,

your assumption appears to be incorrect.

I now think so. I suffer from a child-like orientation that is centred on my body, where my feet are “motionless” on the ground, and the “fact” that the Moon, the Sun, all the planets, stars and galaxies orbit around ME!

Graeme, thank you for the lucid elucidations. It must be time for elevenses in Kent, by now!
Cheers, Chris

[ChrisGreaves]

I have my afternoon planned for Monday, April 8th, at a little resort in Texas.

I've been joking about adding a few miles to PJ's round trip, but writing about my experiences makes me wonder if I would travel to Gander, a three hour drive from Bonavista.
I haven't owned a car since 2003, and could rent one here in Bonavista, but it would probably be expensive as TWO drivers have to drive from Clarenville to drop off the car. Then again to pick it up.

Then I thought: What if David and Kerry, or Bernard, or Tony and Aletha or ... offered me a lift? I would jump at the chance, mainly because it would provide time for six hours of deep conversation about the future of Bonavista.

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My shallow perusal of the Eclipsewise site referenced by Graeme suggests that the total path going through Gander will "hit" around 7:44 p.m. when we are already into dusk, so that the transition from "full sun" to "no sun" and back will not be as dramatic as that in [jealous]Texas[/jealous]. You can see that Newfoundland is sliding into night-time when the path arrives here.

That said, "Management Measures" and my serendipitous situation supplies sufficient numeric quantification for me.

Three hours is a threshold, and if David and Kerry, or Bernard, or Tony and Aletha or ... offered me the loan of a car for the day, I'd probably drive to Gander and back, even by myself. My threshold is a three-hour drive, each way, by myself.

So I make a serious suggestion to you all: If you are within a three-hour drive of the April 8, 2024 total solar eclipse, I urge you to make the trip. The totality crosses the border from Mexico into the USA around 1830 (local time? UTC time?) which means that when you rise from your warm bed that morning you can check cloud cover and make a Go/NoGo decision. Thermos of tea and sandwiches and fruit, and take the day off.

In particular, if you have not yet experienced a total solar eclipse, this will be your first, and might well be your last chance, to know what is best described as a spiritual experience. I have retained that sense of awe for Lo! the past 46 years!

I am not yet at the point of offering gasoline reimbursements to those who make the trip, but now you know that at least I have been thinking about putting my money where my mouth is!

Cheers, Chris

[PJ_in_FL]

Sadly, I'll only be able to get as close as a laptop screen view of the event.

The US has had a good share of solar eclipses over the last couple of years! I hope you enjoy the April 24 one. Will you be taking a picture?

Regards

Graeme

I'm looking into having as much imaging set up as possible, between cell phones, video recorder and Nikon camera.

I'd love the chance to do some practice shots, but I don't think I can convince the Sun and Moon to reset for a redo. Possibly I'll set up a simulation in an interior room and see how to best image a shrouded light source using these various devices. It's difficult to get a really dark room in sunny Florida, even at night. Too many street lights in the neighborhood.

Any advice would be absolutely MARVELOUS!

[ChrisGreaves]

... It's difficult to get a really dark room in sunny Florida, even at night. Too many street lights in the neighborhood.
Any advice would be absolutely MARVELOUS!

Hi PJ. Your local Fridges-To-Go discount store can probably provide you with three tall cartons.
Unassemble them to get them home, then re-assemble them with the duct tape you forgot to buy while you were out into a snug, but effective dark room.
That set up inside your darkest room that can accommodate the cartons should eliminate most of the stray light.

I don't know about simulating the sun and moon, but a metal disk could be the moon, and the brightness of the sun could be adjusted by positioning your LED lamp at varying distances from the aperture in your carton dark-room.

You'll have to make a third trip to the mall to collect about ten yards of cheap black cloth to drape over the little door you built into your carton dark-room.

I would recommend that first you devise a tool to measure light. Perhaps a fixed long time-exposure on a camera. Then a sequence of shots taken
(a) Inside the darkest room at mid-night
(b) Inside the darkest room at noon
(c) ... inside the carton (with its door closed) as a bare-bones cardboard construction
(d) ... with duct tape seals across the corners and edges
(e) ... with one layer of black cloth draped over the closed door
(f) ... with 3, 5, 7, 9 layers of black cloth draped over the closed door
The target of the camera should be something like your black-gloved hand placed on a sheet of brilliant white paper.

I want a full report on my desk at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning

Cheers, Chris

[ChrisGreaves]

(f) ... with 3, 5, 7, 9 layers of black cloth draped over the closed door

Then there is the time factor. You are going to be in that enclosure for a while, so you will end up wishing that while you were at the Fridges-To-Go discount store you had bought a mini-fridge to hold your beer while you are sealed within the cardboard darkroom.
You're welcome!
Chris

[PJ_in_FL]

I want a full report on my desk at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning

Cheers, Chris

It's in the mail ...

[Graeme]

To be honest PJ, since the eclipse only lasts a couple of minutes and totality a couple of seconds, I would just enjoy the wonder of the event. Many eclipse sightings have been lost due to the distractions of cameras!

Graeme

[PJ_in_FL]

To be honest PJ, since the eclipse only lasts a couple of minutes and totality a couple of seconds, I would just enjoy the wonder of the event. Many eclipse sightings have been lost due to the distractions of cameras!

Graeme

I feel this is the wisest council I could ask for!

Thank you.

[ChrisGreaves]

...The orbit of the Moon is inclined to the plane of the ecliptic and all the bodies involved are moving in circular paths. Also: https://www.eclipsewise.com/solar/solar.html

I glanced at each of the eight?/ten? simulations there.
Admittedly a small sample, but all of them show that the path has a component vector(?) that is always moving from West to East as the earth rotates, as I think of it, in the same direction.
So, admittedly a small sample, but :-
(4) Does the shadow always travel in the same E/W West to East direction as the earth's rotation?

In terms of my perspective, the shadow will always be chasing Newfoundland, and Newfoundland will always be running away, trying to escape.

I think that :-
(a) The Earth’s rotation has an impact on my perspective, but the earth’s rotational direction never changes, so “always”
(b) The earth’s orbit around the sun never changes, and the Moon’s orbit around the Earth never changes, so “always” and “always”
(c) We really do have three spherical bodies moving in a pattern that has been unchanged for 4.5 billion years, so "always”.
Please and thank you, is my argument correct?

Cheers, Chris

[Graeme]

If you were to view the solar system from above, the Earth's and the Moon's orbit and rotation would all be anticlockwise. So yes, east to west every time. Even though the Earth's rotation is much faster than the Moon's orbit, the Moon's shadow moves across Earth's surface as a function of its orbit and the ratio of the Earth/Moon distance to Moon/Sun distance (400:1) in a way that you could probably calculate a lot more accurately than I could.

While we're waiting: Solar Eclipses (half way down the page)

Graeme

[ChrisGreaves]

... the Earth's and the Moon's orbit and rotation would all be anticlockwise.

Which is what we should expect from solid bodies that are aggregates of a single mass of dust in motion around a star.
It's easy when I am made to look at it the right way!
Thanks, Chris