Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:


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stuck
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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:hmmn: The BMJ must have been short of content last month.

Ken

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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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stuck wrote:
11 Jan 2023, 17:26
The BMJ must have been short of content last month.
:laugh:
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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Also, why, "...thou shouldst be living...", past tense? John Cleese is still alive is he not?

Ken

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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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stuck wrote:
11 Jan 2023, 19:17
Also, why, "...thou shouldst be living...", past tense? John Cleese is still alive is he not?
Hi Ken; As far as I know John Cleese, of the Monty Python set, is still alive. That said, he has neither emailed not telephoned me since I moved from Toronto to Bonavista. :sad:
And THAT said, I might add that YOU should be living at this hour, otherwise the time I spend typing up this response will have been wasted.

That logic should satisfy you that it is fair to express a hope that someone will be alive and available to respond, the alternative being that they will NOT be alive.

Wishing you Good Health, at least until you get this far, :evilgrin:
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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ChrisGreaves wrote:
12 Jan 2023, 17:09
...the alternative being that they will NOT be alive.
There is another possibility, they could be, "dead and buried and living in Manchester."

Ken
PS Google is remarkably silent on that expression but it is one I have heard used on this side of the Pennines.

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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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stuck wrote:
12 Jan 2023, 19:36
S Google is remarkably silent on that expression but it is one I have heard used on this side of the Pennines.
Ken, you might consider "I thought I'd died and gone to Belgium" or variants thereof.
I first heard that when I landed in Toronto 1982.
If it helps I have a nice man in Yorkshire who does Google searches on my behalf :flee: :flee:
Cheers, Chris
P.S. Another variant along the lines of "A rainy Sunday in Belgium" C
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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ChrisGreaves wrote:
12 Jan 2023, 17:09
That logic should satisfy you that it is fair to express a hope that someone will be alive and available to respond, the alternative being that they will NOT be alive.

Unless Ken and John are cats. Then they will be both dead and alive until their response has been observed or their inability to respond has been observed.
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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Graeme wrote:
13 Jan 2023, 12:39
Unless Ken and John are cats.
Graeme, you must be kitten! :groan:
Cheers, Chris
PS Please allow me to hijack the thread for a little question:-
Since we have really only known about Galaxies for the past hundred years, it follows that all the names of galaxies (apart from their catalogue numbers) must have been assigned in the past hundred years. Correct?
I'm thinking of "Pin wheel", "Mice" and the like.
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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Graeme wrote:
13 Jan 2023, 12:39
...Unless Ken and John are cats...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_In ... 27re_a_dog

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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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stuck wrote:
13 Jan 2023, 22:04
Graeme wrote:
13 Jan 2023, 12:39
...Unless Ken and John are cats...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_In ... 27re_a_dog
Great article! Thanks.

"You can be whoever you want to be. You can completely redefine yourself if you want". Nowadays identity theft promises you that anyone can be who you are; or who you used to be when your bank accounts had money in them. :sad:

Those of us who are really smart saw all this coming one hundred and thirty years ago 1901. Of course, I was just a nipper then.

I might try publishing a poll asking how many Loungers think I am actually as bright as I am made out to be, but modesty ... :blush:
Cheers, Chris
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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ChrisGreaves wrote:
13 Jan 2023, 14:03
PS Please allow me to hijack the thread for a little question:-
Since we have really only known about Galaxies for the past hundred years, it follows that all the names of galaxies (apart from their catalogue numbers) must have been assigned in the past hundred years. Correct?

Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi, a Persian astronomer, made the first recorded observations of the Andromeda Galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud in 964. But it was thought that the Milky Way was the whole universe and the nebulae that could be seen among the stars were floating about close by. It wasn't until the mid 17th century that Immanuel Kant proposed that the nebulae might be separate Island Universes. And the Milky way was just one of these. Charles Messier published his first list of 45 known nebulae twenty years later, so that list included M31, the Andromeda Galaxy. Other objects were added by others right up to 1967. So I suppose it would be true to say that names have been assigned to galaxies as time has gone on by the Greeks, the Persians, the Europeans and of course others in other civilisations and cultures, for a thousand years or more!
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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Graeme wrote:
14 Jan 2023, 12:37
Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi, a Persian astronomer, made the first recorded observations of the Andromeda Galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud in 964. But it was thought that the Milky Way was the whole universe and the nebulae that could be seen among the stars were floating about close by. It wasn't until the mid 17th century that Immanuel Kant proposed that the nebulae might be separate Island Universes. And the Milky way was just one of these. Charles Messier published his first list of 45 known nebulae twenty years later, so that list included M31, the Andromeda Galaxy. Other objects were added by others right up to 1967. So I suppose it would be true to say that names have been assigned to galaxies as time has gone on by the Greeks, the Persians, the Europeans and of course others in other civilizations and cultures, for a thousand years or more!
Messier: "The first version of Messier's catalogue contained 45 objects and was published in 1774"
It seems that back in 1774 what we now call "galaxies" were being identified, named, and catalogued, but the objects were collections of diffuse objects "39 galaxies, 4 planetary nebulae, 7 other types of nebulae, and 55 star clusters" so at that time Messier developed a catalogue of "fuzzy objects".

So these objects have been assigned some sort of label ranging from the familiar (milky) to the strict (M31) for about 3,000 years, but if I understand it, Hubble was the one who managed to show/prove that these massive fuzzy objects were self-contained collections of millions of stars quite separate from our own galaxy. Further, that the remaining "fuzzy objects" were "planetary nebulae, other types of nebulae, and star clusters", which I take to mean "part of our galaxy".

Up to the 1920s many philosophers supposed, proposed, believed etc but Hubble it was who established what a galaxy was?
Would it be fair to say, at the amateur level, that Named Galaxies really came into their own just a hundred years ago"?

Thanks, Chris
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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ChrisGreaves wrote:
14 Jan 2023, 12:56
It seems that back in 1774 what we now call "galaxies" were being identified, named, and catalogued, but the objects were collections of diffuse objects "39 galaxies, 4 planetary nebulae, 7 other types of nebulae, and 55 star clusters" so at that time Messier developed a catalogue of "fuzzy objects".

Messier was actually a comet hunter and he produced his list to identify the annoying fuzzy things that made comet hunting more difficult.

So these objects have been assigned some sort of label ranging from the familiar (milky) to the strict (M31) for about 3,000 years, but if I understand it, Hubble was the one who managed to show/prove that these massive fuzzy objects were self-contained collections of millions of stars quite separate from our own galaxy. Further, that the remaining "fuzzy objects" were "planetary nebulae, other types of nebulae, and star clusters", which I take to mean "part of our galaxy".

Hubble used Cephid variables he saw in the Andromada galaxy to determine the distance thus ending the Shapley–Curtis Debate.

Up to the 1920s many philosophers supposed, proposed, believed etc but Hubble it was who established what a galaxy was?
Would it be fair to say, at the amateur level, that Named Galaxies really came into their own just a hundred years ago"?

I suppose!
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Re: Cleese! thou shouldst be living at this hour:

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Graeme wrote:
17 Jan 2023, 09:18
Hubble used Cephid variables he saw in the Andromada galaxy to determine the distance thus ending the Shapley–Curtis Debate.
Thank you Graeme. This cliches it for me.
So what we call "galaxies" today were known for many years before the 1920s, but Hubble provided definite and successful arguments that Andromeda was separate from the Milky Way, and a means for declaring that a fuzzy object WAS a galaxy by virtue of its distance.
Cheers, Chris
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