green and pleasant

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kdock
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by kdock »

stuck wrote:
14 Jun 2021, 09:47
It's still not perfect but it does considerably reduce the number of exceptions if you state the rule in full:
    "i before e except after c, if the sound is 'ee' "
When I was a kid it was "i before e except after c, unless sounding like a, as in neighbor and weigh"

Which would neatly apply to Leif's name. Of course, you'd have to know in advance that Leif was pronounced "Lafe" in order to say it correctly. And if you only heard it, you'd likely use your own language's rules to spell it. Pronouncing it as "Life" conforms to the way a German pronounces "ei" (long "i") as opposed to "ie" (long "e"). And if it was pronounced "Lafe" by golly the Germans wouldn't mess around with "i"s and "e"s - they'd use an "a".

Also, I think Chris cheated when he included multisyllabic and/or compound words where both vowels are pronounced (reincarnation, reinforcing, herein, freeing...). Of course, these words would confuse most any ESL student having only that old rule to go on. :cranky:
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BobH
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by BobH »

stuck wrote:
14 Jun 2021, 09:47
ChrisGreaves wrote:
13 Jun 2021, 19:40
..the rule "i before e, except after c"...
The thing is, that rule is invariably misquoted, as exemplified by Chris. It's still not perfect but it does considerably reduce the number of exceptions if you state the rule in full:
    "i before e except after c, if the sound is 'ee' "

Including the extra clause handles words like deign and eight where the sound is not 'ee' but 'ay' (as in bay / hay). Similarly height and sleight, where the sound is not 'ee' but 'eye' (as in buy / try). OK so it doesn't cope with weird, where the sound is 'ee' but that's because it is weird.

Ken
Many decades ago I learned the rule as a rhyme:
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' or when sounded as 'a' as in neighbor and weigh.

The rhyme needs improving to include the 'ee' sound as Ken suggests, but I've not come up with a line for it.

I see Kim beat me to it. :blush:
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Leif
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by Leif »

kdock wrote:
14 Jun 2021, 16:49
Of course, these words would confuse most any ESL student having only that old rule to go on. :cranky:
Which reminds me of my favourite ESL cartoon...
Spoiler
ESL.jpg
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Leif

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HansV
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by HansV »

An oldie but goldie! :laugh:
Best wishes,
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ChrisGreaves
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by ChrisGreaves »

HansV wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 09:18
An oldie but goldie! :laugh:
...but not as good as the Monty Python Italian language class sketch, which I am not about to re-post.
Cheers
Chris
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ChrisGreaves
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by ChrisGreaves »

kdock wrote:
14 Jun 2021, 16:49
When I was a kid it ...
"When"?

ESL students are less worried about the pronunciation of "reincarnation" than about more worldly matters.

The most common question asked of me after ESL class, came when two or three young men, or two or three young ladies (but never a mixed-group) would drag me to a quiet corner and nervously ask for a definitive ruling on what one word one could safely use when one needed to urinate.
It seems that no matter what word they used, it was greeted with a smirk.
In a restaurant,it is restroom
in a diner, washroom
in a private house, bathroom
in a cowboy-themed steak house (you know who you are!) outhouse
in other places, toilet, lavatory, little-boys-room, etc.
And this in the modern-day world-class city called Toronto!

Excuse me, I have to go now, to see a man about a dog, after I have inspected the plumbing...
Chris
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John Gray
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by John Gray »

My consultant urologist* asked me whether I was having any problem with my waterworks.
"Good heavens," I replied to her, "doctors don't still say that, do they? How quaint!" :scratch:

* hasn't everyone? :thumbup:
John Gray

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Re: green and pleasant

Post by GeoffW »

John Gray wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 10:56
My consultant urologist* asked me whether I was having any problem with my waterworks.
"Good heavens," I replied to her, "doctors don't still say that, do they? How quaint!" :scratch:

* hasn't everyone? :thumbup:
Shouldn't you use the first person plural instead of the singular form?

The "royal we".

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ChrisGreaves
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by ChrisGreaves »

GeoffW wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 12:50
The "royal we".
:groan:
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stuck
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by stuck »

and another thread goes down the :toilet:

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stuck
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by stuck »

Oh and in case anyone is wondering. No, the weir that started all this has nothing to do with a sewage works.

Presumably the weir had something to do with a mill at this point on the river at some time in the past but there's no sign of a mill any more.

Ken

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StuartR
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by StuartR »

Enough milling about now folks, time to get back to the daily grind
StuartR


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ChrisGreaves
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by ChrisGreaves »

stuck wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 14:24
...but there's no sign of a mill any more.
I, however, have been toiling through a large part of your night.
You might call my work "night toil".
Untitled.png
A cursory count shows that up to the time of my posting roughly 1,500 words have been expended on this thread.
Now if a picture is worth a thousand words we are at about one-and-a-half picture's worth.
A picture started this thread and I have just added an image, so we must have at least another four hundred words to go.
Less the ones I have expended in this post.
I think that, on the whole, we work rather well as a team.
Cheers
Chris
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stuck
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by stuck »

ChrisGreaves wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 08:59
...a picture is worth a thousand words we are at about one-and-a-half picture's worth...
You might want to revisit your maths as the picture of the weir is a panorama comprising two overlapping shots.
:evilgrin:

Ken

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ChrisGreaves
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by ChrisGreaves »

stuck wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 09:36
... the picture of the weir is a panorama comprising two overlapping shots.
Untitled.png
I'm on it!
Thanks, Ken.
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Leif
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by Leif »

Weir Only In It For The Monet.jpg
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Leif

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stuck
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by stuck »

Hey! If you're offering me real Monet for my photos I'll happily sell to you.

Ken

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HansV
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by HansV »

Giverny my Monet?
Best wishes,
Hans

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stuck
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by stuck »

HansV wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 11:33
...my Monet?
What?? You've got one as well? And you Admins keep trying to tell us The Lounge doesn't pay well :hmmn:

Ken

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Leif
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Re: green and pleasant

Post by Leif »

stuck wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 12:35
What?? You've got one as well?
Careful Ken, you're beginning to sound green and unpleasant :laugh:
Leif