Bullets/Numbering (Word 2007)

[Jack21]

Hi

I'm sure you have all noticed (unless it is just my company) that when selecting bullets from the relevant icon under the paragraph ribbon in Word 2007, the bullet appears indented. Does anyone know how to stop this indent and ensure the bullet appears Left aligned?

I have looked at Normal and cannot see a way to set the bullet so that it does not indent on first clicking it, I have also renamed Normal.dotm to Normal.zip and analysed the relevant styles.xml file but still no joy. We are at present putting a company specific Office Theme together, eventhough we can put in place a bullet style that left aligns we are aware that most users will select the "bullet icon" to insert a bullet.

This is driving me crazy .... can anyone help?

Many thanks
Jack

[HansV]

I don't think you can change this behavior. Even if you modify the List Paragraph style (which is applied by both the Bullets and Numbering buttons) to have 0" left indent, the buttons still apply an indent

So you'll have to educate your users to apply the List Bullet and List Numbering styles instead. This has been the advice of all Word experts anyway since time immemorial - see for example In Microsoft Word, use a bulleted paragraph style for bullets and dotpoints. and How to control bullets in Microsoft Word.

[Jack21]

What was Bill Gates thinking !!

Thanks for your help though Hans.

[Guessed]

Try this, it worked for me in a document. If it works for you then you should apply it to your chosen template eg Normal.dotx.

Select the MultiLevel List button in the Home>Paragraph ribbon and choose the Define New MultiLevel List... option down at the bottom.
In the dialog that appears, for level 1 ensure the number alignment is aligned at 0cm and set the text indent to something acceptable like 0.6cm
Click OK to this

Now the use of the Bullets or the Numbering buttons sets the bullets at 0. You should be able to do this to your template as well so it carries across to your new documents.

[DaveA]

What was Bill Gates thinking !!

In all of my education, I was taught that numbered and bulleted list were ALWAYS indented from the base style of the document.
Now, that said, an document that uses numbered paragraphs are not indented, but based on the depth of the numbering, then the text is indented to the number of characters of the numbering.

[Jack21]

Guessed - thanks for the suggestion. It does work when you initially set it up in Normal.dotm but once saving and closing the template it drops the left aligned, so alas no joy.

DaveA - the need to have a left aligned bullet is being dictated by our Brand Department who feel that the company brand requires a left aligned bullet, which follows all the other styles they wish to put in place. Their concern is that the user will click on the bullet option, which will indent and so they want to ensure the bullet is left aligned.

I have now opened a Premier call with Microsoft to see if they can identify a way around this issue and, if they do, I will post it on the site (fingers crossed).

Regards
Jack

[Guessed]

Perhaps you will need to customise the ribbon to reassign the button to a macro of your choosing. Another alternative is to add an automacro that runs when you open the template to set the indents.

To avoid this (flawed) temptation, I usually make a custom ribbon with all the buttons and macros that the authors should be using. If you position this ribbon in front of the Home ribbon then it appears on screen first and so the users have to go out of their way to get to that button.

[Jack21]

Thanks for the ribbon suggestion Guessed. The approach we are taking is to deploy an Office Theme via a number of specific files to a user's machine with one of the files storing all the styles relevant to the theme. I was hoping that a small change to Normal.dotm or a change within the styles file would resolve the issues.

Seems such a small request, nothing taxing or tricky but alas I ask Microsoft for too much !!

[Guessed]

I would be looking to deploy a template(s) other than Normal.dotm for your corporate users. If you require a number of specific files just to create one document then the chances of things going wrong are magnified. I generally leave Normal.dotm as the personal domain of the user and get them using attached templates to bring in standard content, styles and functionality.

FWIW I would be very careful about using some of the sexy new features that Word 2007 uses to format files that are not contained within the document itself because the documents are going to be sent out to others who will not have access to these other files. Use of customised themes, style sets and non-windows standard fonts are likely to result in external users seeing a differently laid out document.

[Jack21]

Well after some investigation with Microsoft, it appears that this can be acheived.

Create a new document then select the Styles Window from the Styles part of the ribbon (for quick access - Alt+Ctrl+Shift+S). Once the Styles Window is open, select "Options" at the bottom of the window. Select "Bullet and numbering formatting" under the "Select formatting to show as styles", then select OK. Keep the Styles Window open.

Click on the Bullet Icon and start typing a few words, you will notice that the style being highlighted is List Paragraph and just below you should see "Bulleted, symbol ...". You are now able to modify this style via "Format" and "Numbering".

If like myself you wish to deploy an Office Theme to a number of users, you would need to make this change to the relevant "styles" template which you would store under "C:\Users\*username*\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\QuickStyles".

Hopefully this will help anyone struggling with the pain that is setting the left align on the bullets !!

Jack

[HansV]

Looks promising, but does it really work for you? When I try it, bulleted text reverts to being indented as in the screenshot below:

x114.jpg

[Jack21]

Seems to work for me .....

[HansV]

It works for me while the document is open, but not when I close and reopen it...

[Jack21]

You may need to set the style in Normal.dotm or relevant template as there is a section that says "On all documents based on this template" or some such thing. I have not tested this myself as I need to set the style up on the template I have stored in the Quick Styles folder.

Regards
Jack

[HansV]

I've tried that too, but no success...

[Jack21]

I will make the change to the styles template I have stored under Quick Styles and see if that works then feedback.

Fingers crossed !!
Jack

[Jack21]

Hans

Alas no joy. After making the change to the dotx file stored within Quick Styles and ensuring that all documents based on this template was selected the left align did not stay in place. I zipped Normal.dotm and took a look at the styles.xml and found the bulleted style with the standard Microsoft indent, which cannot be changed. I also took a look at Word 2010 and looked at the related Normal.dotm (after zipping the file) but noted the same results as Word 2007.

I have left this with Microsoft again to see if there is a resolution but am not holding my breath !!
Jack

[Jack21]

Hi all

Brief update on this issue. I logged a call with Microsoft which was escalated to the Office Product Team, who have informed us that this is expected behaviour. The only possible way to make the change would be to zip Normal.dotm, open Styles.xml and make a change to the bullet style within. They have said that if we take this approach they will not support the environment.

Looks like we are going to stick with the Microsoft bullet indent !!

Jack

[HansV]

I was afraid you'd be stuck with it...