Creating a Backup

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ChrisGreaves
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by ChrisGreaves »

Hi hlewton.
Not to negate or disparage any of the advice given here by my superiors, but I still am not sure what it is you want to do, and without a specified goal, much of what you have read on the internet has to be meaningless.
hlewton wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 21:46
... I do remember not being sure of what I was doing ... I find most programs assume you know what you're doing. That certainly is not the case for me. ... I saw where at least one of them did not backup Microsoft 365.
... the best Free option... ... do not need all the bells and whistles ... if "Cloning" means the same as creating an "Image" of the hard drive. ...
... the second best out there of those it tested. ... I do not want anything going to the clouds .
When I read these texts I think that unless and until you write down to the best of your ability what you want to do, you will be buffeted by the waves of thoughts of strangers on the web.

Consider "The best bits of Fawlty Towers" as a YouTube video. For that particular reviewer the best bits might be slapstick, whereas for me the best bits are word-play in the Spanish language.
"The best" is a totally meaningless criteria unless and until YOU (or I!) have first specified our criteria for a product.

Of course, we start off not having a clue, and the internet reviews educate us, so already you know that you have an upper limit on price (sound like fifty dollars) which means you can ignore "FREE" as a criteria. You do not need all the bells and whistles, but first define bells and whistles: Anything not mentioned specifically on MY list of features that MUST be available".

It sounds to me that the product must be able to backup Microsoft365 - whatever that means to you; since I am still learning Office 2003 I am clueless here, but then "Microsoft 365" would NOT appear on my list, would it? And, like me, you find cloud-based personal data repugnant.
As far as the terms "backup, image and clone" go, you can make your own definition; you have already discovered that they mean different things to different people.

I rely mostly on Control Panel's System restore., mainly because I am about to install a program and want to be able to roll back to 6am today if something goes wrong. I have already decided that when this Laptop fails, I will buy a new one, more RAM, the world's biggest SSD, and complain loudly about being pushed into Windows11. But then I have two older laptops that would let me limp to the internet for a couple of weeks, and I will please over a hundred people by posting a message here announcing that "I will be out of action for a month"

Here is a challenge for you: Take a half-hour and jot down, paper and pencil, exactly what you want to do, and why, and how. What is it that scares you - rationally - into wanting a "backup"?
Is your data properly backed up every night? Then you are worried about your computer and its configuration.
Are you worried about the state of your computer? Will you buy a new computer when this one crashes? If so, then comments about passwords/licenses is appropriate.

It seems strange to ask, but I think you really need to know and specify more of what YOU want than to spend time right now on what total strangers on the internet think is important for THEM!

I'm rambling, I know, but every time I embark on some project without a goal, I fail.

Cheers, Chris
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Rebel
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by Rebel »

As Ken explained, the partition is full. A quick Google search explains that
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hlewton
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

stuck wrote:
24 Sep 2022, 08:35
hlewton wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 21:46
...
Also and I just noticed this, the drive (?) on the far right is showing in Red. I installed this program on 3 machines in total and only this one shows that in Red. Any idea why that is and what, if anything, can I do about it?
I think it's in red because that partition is essentially full.

Ken
Thank you. I am going to have to contact my computer builder and see what is going on. This is supposed to be a 2 TB SSD hard drive and, my understanding is, it is not partitioned.
Last edited by hlewton on 24 Sep 2022, 15:13, edited 1 time in total.
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hlewton

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hlewton
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

ChrisGreaves wrote:
24 Sep 2022, 12:33
Hi hlewton.
Not to negate or disparage any of the advice given here by my superiors, but I still am not sure what it is you want to do, and without a specified goal, much of what you have read on the internet has to be meaningless.
hlewton wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 21:46
... I do remember not being sure of what I was doing ... I find most programs assume you know what you're doing. That certainly is not the case for me. ... I saw where at least one of them did not backup Microsoft 365.
... the best Free option... ... do not need all the bells and whistles ... if "Cloning" means the same as creating an "Image" of the hard drive. ...
... the second best out there of those it tested. ... I do not want anything going to the clouds .
When I read these texts I think that unless and until you write down to the best of your ability what you want to do, you will be buffeted by the waves of thoughts of strangers on the web.

Consider "The best bits of Fawlty Towers" as a YouTube video. For that particular reviewer the best bits might be slapstick, whereas for me the best bits are word-play in the Spanish language.
"The best" is a totally meaningless criteria unless and until YOU (or I!) have first specified our criteria for a product.

Of course, we start off not having a clue, and the internet reviews educate us, so already you know that you have an upper limit on price (sound like fifty dollars) which means you can ignore "FREE" as a criteria. You do not need all the bells and whistles, but first define bells and whistles: Anything not mentioned specifically on MY list of features that MUST be available".

It sounds to me that the product must be able to backup Microsoft365 - whatever that means to you; since I am still learning Office 2003 I am clueless here, but then "Microsoft 365" would NOT appear on my list, would it? And, like me, you find cloud-based personal data repugnant.
As far as the terms "backup, image and clone" go, you can make your own definition; you have already discovered that they mean different things to different people.

I rely mostly on Control Panel's System restore., mainly because I am about to install a program and want to be able to roll back to 6am today if something goes wrong. I have already decided that when this Laptop fails, I will buy a new one, more RAM, the world's biggest SSD, and complain loudly about being pushed into Windows11. But then I have two older laptops that would let me limp to the internet for a couple of weeks, and I will please over a hundred people by posting a message here announcing that "I will be out of action for a month"

Here is a challenge for you: Take a half-hour and jot down, paper and pencil, exactly what you want to do, and why, and how. What is it that scares you - rationally - into wanting a "backup"?
Is your data properly backed up every night? Then you are worried about your computer and its configuration.
Are you worried about the state of your computer? Will you buy a new computer when this one crashes? If so, then comments about passwords/licenses is appropriate.

It seems strange to ask, but I think you really need to know and specify more of what YOU want than to spend time right now on what total strangers on the internet think is important for THEM!

I'm rambling, I know, but every time I embark on some project without a goal, I fail.

Cheers, Chris
I do know what I want to do, it's just that I'm easily confused by terms I am not used to. I want a complete image of three of my computers. In making them other unexpected questions pop up. I am never afraid of losing any of my data. I back up every change to them in 7 places, including external drives and my other computers. I am under the understanding that by creating an image of each computer I am protected because, apparently, an image can restore my hard drive to exactly what the old one was. I too create a Restore point each and every time I add a new program or do anything else that may affect the overall performance of the computer. Over the years, many of them, I have felt very secure in that I would never lose anything I have done. However, I have always taken the path of backing up only my data. If I had a crash I could easily recovery that data but, I had the tedious task of reinstalling all my programs, tweaks, and folders. If imaging does as I believe it does, it would save me those tedious tasks. I figured it was time for me to learn this imaging process but, as I mentioned above, when the program doesn't follow the tutorial it confuses me. Hope this answers your observations about my undertakings.
Regards,
hlewton

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hlewton
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

Rebel wrote:
24 Sep 2022, 13:22
As Ken explained, the partition is full. A quick Google search explains that
Thank you for that information and actually I had a hunch that was the case. However, it still confused me because I didn't think I had any partitions. Now here comes the confusing part about this. Please see the attachment. After talking with the person who builds my computer, we believe this is a Recovery Partition created by the installation of Window 11. Now what is even more confusing to me is why would this partition be Red, almost full, on this, my brand new Windows 11 computer when on the Windows 10 computer that was updated to Windows 11 shows the same partition but it is essentially empty?
Disc.jpg
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hlewton

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ChrisGreaves
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by ChrisGreaves »

hlewton wrote:
24 Sep 2022, 15:00
... I want a complete image of three of my computers. In making them other unexpected questions pop up. ... an image can restore my hard drive to exactly what the old one was.
Thank you. I would state your goal as :-
"To obtain and use a single program that will work on all three of my computers (here you name the brand, model, capacity etc of each computer) so that I can maintain (create and then update) the contents of the boot partition so as to be able to recover the operating system to a new and different hard drive in the event of the failure of a hard disk crash. I can assign a separate removable drive for each computer image."

That will do for now.

You are worried that the one hard drive that holds your operating system on each of the three hard drives is prone to failure, and you are worried about the time it will take to get back to where-you-were-this-morning.
You are conscious that your local store probably will NOT have an identical hard drive, so you must be able to bring your operating system up on a different make, model, capacity hard drive in each of the three computers.

I suspect that this delivers YOUR specifications of what the application program must be able to do.
Anything else is "bells and whistles".

Thanks, Chris
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by StuartR »

I suspect the partition is nearly full because it was intentionally created that way to avoid wasting space. Nothing tries to write to this recovery partition, it is just there for recovering after some failures. So it doesn't need any free space. You don't need to waste any more space than is essential to store the recovery information.
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

ChrisGreaves wrote:
24 Sep 2022, 15:25

You are worried that the one hard drive that holds your operating system on each of the three hard drives is prone to failure, and you are worried about the time it will take to get back to where-you-were-this-morning.
You are conscious that your local store probably will NOT have an identical hard drive, so you must be able to bring your operating system up on a different make, model, capacity hard drive in each of the three computers.

I suspect that this delivers YOUR specifications of what the application program must be able to do.
Anything else is "bells and whistles".

Thanks, Chris
Yep, that about sums it up. BTW, I have created images for all three computers I wanted to and will now go forward with learning how to create incremental backups or images, whatever it may be called in the next tutorial.
Regards,
hlewton

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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

StuartR wrote:
24 Sep 2022, 15:27
I suspect the partition is nearly full because it was intentionally created that way to avoid wasting space. Nothing tries to write to this recovery partition, it is just there for recovering after some failures. So it doesn't need any free space. You don't need to waste any more space than is essential to store the recovery information.
Any idea why the Windows 11 computer that was upgraded from Windows 10 does not have that same Red partition? It has the same partition but is nearly empty and it is not Red.
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hlewton

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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by StuartR »

I have never understood how these recovery partitions work, I just leave them alone
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

StuartR wrote:
24 Sep 2022, 21:08
I have never understood how these recovery partitions work, I just leave them alone
OK, thanks. I will do the same.
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hlewton

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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by DaveA »

Be aware that incremental backups or images are a REAL PAIN when rebuilding a drive.
I heave alwayd done a complete image each time, this way I have onone image to restore.
This does require one to have more complete images than would think!
I am so far behind, I think I am First :evilgrin:
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by StuartR »

I also prefer to have complete images, but sometimes there just isn't the disk space
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

[/quote]
DaveA wrote:
25 Sep 2022, 03:12
Be aware that incremental backups or images are a REAL PAIN when rebuilding a drive.
I heave alwayd done a complete image each time, this way I have onone image to restore.
This does require one to have more complete images than would think!
I agree and was thinking along those same lines. Thank you for the suggestion.
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hlewton

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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

StuartR wrote:
25 Sep 2022, 08:12
I also prefer to have complete images, but sometimes there just isn't the disk space
For this reason, I just got 2 new external drives yesterday so I'd have that disk space. I now have 3 disks to use and I am imaging 4 computers. All 4 images fit on one disk. Thinking ahead, I was wondering once I start the rotation of drives if I will have to reformat the drives or if the Macrium Reflect will give me the option of overwriting what is already there. I guess I'll see when that time comes.
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Re: Creating a Backup

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Before I let this subject rest, I would like to ask a few more questions about using an image of a drive:

1. If I have an image of an HDD and replace it with an SSD can the image be used on the SSD? I am a bit confused by what I found but believe this is possible.
2. Can the replacement SSD be larger than the original HDD? From the little I gleaned from the NET, I believe that is a must.
3. I assume the new SSD will have to have a version of Windows installed on it and then Macrium will have to be downloaded on to it before any image can be run. Is that correct?
4. If my assumption in No. 3 is correct, if the image is run does it overwrite the OS that was just installed?
a. If I used an image of a Windows 10 on a newly installed Windows 11 SSD disk will that give me what I had when I created the image with the exception of now using Win 11 and not Win 10 as the OS? I didn’t come up with anything in me searches about this.

5. Does using an image make the desktop look exactly as it was when the image was created?
6. After an image is run will I have all the folders I had created before the image was created?
7. It was mentioned that creating a disk image was a great way to preserve programs and their passwords. Does this mean that none of the programs that were installed when the image was created would have to be reinstalled on the new disk?


I have searched the WEB for these answers and either I am not phrasing it correctly or the search is not understanding what I am asking or it is using clone where I use image. Again, in all the years I have had computers I have never done an image, a clone, or an entire backup.

I am a bit concerned about one of my older Windows 10 machines giving me the BSOD soon. It is the machine my wife uses so I’d have to get it repaired as quickly as possible. :evilgrin: My thought is imaging is the route to take. But, as mentioned above, it would be updated to Win 11 and so I hope the imaging would work in that scenario.
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hlewton

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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by StuartR »

You can restore an image backup to a brand new, unformatted, HDD or SDD that is the same size, or larger, than the original. The target drive will be completely overwritten, so you would need to have booted the computer from a different disk to do this. Most imaging software will allow you to create USB or DVD media that can be used to start the computer and restore an image.

See for example Macrium reflect: How to create USB rescue media
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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by Leif »

hlewton wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 14:56
Before I let this subject rest, I would like to ask a few more questions about using an image of a drive:
...
5. Does using an image make the desktop look exactly as it was when the image was created?
6. After an image is run will I have all the folders I had created before the image was created?
7. It was mentioned that creating a disk image was a great way to preserve programs and their passwords. Does this mean that none of the programs that were installed when the image was created would have to be reinstalled on the new disk?

I have searched the WEB for these answers and either I am not phrasing it correctly or the search is not understanding what I am asking or it is using clone where I use image. Again, in all the years I have had computers I have never done an image, a clone, or an entire backup.
What Is Full System Image Backup and Why Should I Care? should answer most, if not all, of your questions above.
Leif

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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

StuartR wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 15:19
You can restore an image backup to a brand new, unformatted, HDD or SDD that is the same size, or larger, than the original. The target drive will be completely overwritten, so you would need to have booted the computer from a different disk to do this. Most imaging software will allow you to create USB or DVD media that can be used to start the computer and restore an image.

See for example Macrium reflect: How to create USB rescue media
Thank you for the link and reply. I will check it out.
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hlewton

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Re: Creating a Backup

Post by hlewton »

Leif wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 16:33
hlewton wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 14:56
Before I let this subject rest, I would like to ask a few more questions about using an image of a drive:
...
5. Does using an image make the desktop look exactly as it was when the image was created?
6. After an image is run will I have all the folders I had created before the image was created?
7. It was mentioned that creating a disk image was a great way to preserve programs and their passwords. Does this mean that none of the programs that were installed when the image was created would have to be reinstalled on the new disk?

I have searched the WEB for these answers and either I am not phrasing it correctly or the search is not understanding what I am asking or it is using clone where I use image. Again, in all the years I have had computers I have never done an image, a clone, or an entire backup.
What Is Full System Image Backup and Why Should I Care? should answer most, if not all, of your questions above.
Thank you for the reply and the link. I will check it out.
Regards,
hlewton