Too often

[snb]

I receive an Error message like this one

[HansV]

This problem went away for a while, but sadly, it is back. I see it several times a day.
Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about it - apparently the shared server that hosts Eileen's Lounge experiences heavy traffic, or too many bots try to scrape our content. Many bots,in particular those of Chinese origin, ignore the rules for web bots.

[PJ_in_FL]

This problem went away for a while, but sadly, it is back. I see it several times a day.
Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about it - apparently the shared server that hosts Eileen's Lounge experiences heavy traffic, or too many bots try to scrape our content. Many bots,in particular those of Chinese origin, ignore the rules for web bots.

ATM there are 12 "registered" users, myself and 11 bots. How do bots get registered? Is registration automatically completed without admin intervention?

Plus there are 1025 "guests". Also bots?

[HansV]

Admins can see how the user's browser identifies itself. Polite webbots tell us that they're bots. We then add them to a list of "registered" bots, so that they can't try to log in.
But some bots (especially from the People's Republic of China) don't identify as bots, and they visit us from many different IP addresses. These are the bulk of the Guests.

[PJ_in_FL]

Hans,

We don't thank you and the other admins nearly enough!

[BobH]

^^^^
Amen!

[kdock]

What they said. ^^^^

Thanks! Kim

[ChrisGreaves]

Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about it -

OK.
A thought; maybe an interim solution:-

When I click Preview of Submit and am rewarded with the General SQL Error, my well-trained left hand magically taps the <F5-Refresh> function key until the Skinner Box delivers the updated screen.
What if EL magically detected the General SQL Error, recognized that it's good OMG again, and automatically hammered out simulated <F5> taps until something other than General SQL Error popped up?

Yes, by machine-attacking the system, instead of attacking at the human rate, I'd be depriving other Loungers of cycles, but I'd also be denying the rogue bots of cycles too.

Computers are supposed to be used for performing Boring And Repetitive tasks. Why am I the one who has to tap the <F5> function key?

Cheers, Chris

[HansV]

I suspect that that would only make the problem worse!

[ChrisGreaves]

I suspect that that would only make the problem worse!

Context: I have just spent fifteen seconds on three taps of the <F5> key to get to this point where I can begin typing my response. Multiply that by (perhaps) three times - for a total of fifteen <F5> key taps as I go through the Preview/Edit phases to Submit.

From a personal point of view, this will only get worse as the typical engagement rises from fifteen <F5>s through 16, 17 to 20 and beyond.. That is, it can only get worse.

Consider the argument that these 15 <F5>s degrade the bandwidth (of time) for all other human users: I would argue "Not so much" because the 30 minutes I spend each day posting on EL represents a mere 2% of the 1440 minutes in a 24-hour period. In that sense my 30 minutes occupying "a slot" is a small impact on all the other human users who spend 30 minutes a day typing, waiting, ...

The impact on bots that spend 120 minutes per day might be significant (hooray!).

Back to your comment:

What logic lies behind your suspicion? Is it suspicion or is it an unfounded fear? I am suggesting a computer/server equivalent of a high-speed commuter lane on a highway, better service/faster transit for privileged players. A non-stop train from Meulin to Paris for peak-hour commuters.

In what way/how would speeding ***my*** progress through the process of posting affect the other work of the servers? This is a valid question for solving this problem on any equipment that serves humans and (competitively) rogue computer programs; we see this already in the mandatory 60-seconds interval between posts.

My crude bottom-line for this is that the General SQL Error is a technical problem, and I am curious about technical solutions to a technical problem.

Cheers, Chris
P.S. The alternative to me using 15 <F5>s is to shrug and spend less of my valuable(!) time in the Preview/Edit phase and just post stuff as my two-fingers can type, and let other users navigate typos and grammatical errors. Now that really WOULD affect other users! C

[HansV]

Chris, please! Instead of hammering F5, overburdening the server even more, just wait 20 or 30 seconds and then press F5 once.

[ChrisGreaves]

Chris, please! Instead of hammering F5, overburdening the server even more, just wait 20 or 30 seconds and then press F5 once.

OK. That is a valid alternative.
But still and all there is a 20-second delay; I sound petulant and self-centred I know, but the bottom line remains that the General SQL Error sucks the life out of us, as evidenced by the number of times the topic is resurrected.

I'll stand by my argument that having EL detect and process the effects of the General SQL Error for registered users is ***a*** solution for regular users.
In the meantime I suppose that if I were really clever I could write some Selenium code to issue the <F5> key for me.

I must add that I am not considering doing this, but am exploring possible technical solutions to a technical problem, while wondering about your suspicions.

I shall try your 20-second wait solution for a few days.

Thanks, Chris

[stuck]

...I sound petulant and self-centred I know...

Agreed

Please, please, do as Hans has asked and do not add to the strain on the server by repeatedly hammering F5, either automatically or manually. By doing that you are in effect launching a denial of service attack, and that sounds like an action that would get you banned.

Ken

[ChrisGreaves]

Please, please, do as Hans has asked and do not add to the strain on the server by repeatedly hammering F5, either automatically or manually.

Hi Ken, and thanks for the heads-up.
I should have prefaced my comments to the effect that "I suspect that many users try to solve the problem by ..."
This morning before posting I made pencilled notes of how many "tries" and their duration, for the purposes of providing hard data to me comments.

It is a simple matter for me to revert to my practice of sighing and wandering off to do some other household task until EL is quiescent.

So here's a question for you now that I have published some observational data on the General SQL Error: Supposing ChrisGreaves never again taps that <F5> function key - it's possible, especially if he gets himself banned for DNS - how many other Loungers are tapping away at the <F5> key?
How can they be stopped except by banning them for DNS?
And in the meantime these bots take over EL by inhibiting service to regular users.

I maintain that this is a technical problem, and deserves a technical solution.

As a technical person I can devise technical solutions as a user, and will maintain that there has to be a technical solution from the installation point of view.

In an earlier post I suggested that ***money*** might be involved, but until we have ***a*** technical solution with an estimate of cost, we need not dismiss this idea with a discussion of money. That is, until se see that the monetary cost might be more than (say) $100 per year.

Cheers, Chris

[Rebel]

It is a simple matter for me to revert to my practice of sighing and wandering off to do some other household task until EL is quiescent.

Then why don't you do exactly that? This is NOT Chris's Lounge, nor are you an administrator in the Lounge. You don't like or agree with the Administrators' responses, and so you keep harping and harping on this same topic. You disagree with Stuart's remark ("As soon as money is involved it can become a service with expectations, rather than a group of friends helping each other.") and yet what you are doing currently without money involvement seems to confirm Stuart's observation. If this site and the service that is being provided to you is not satisfactory, I'm sure that there are other venues available that you might find more suitable.

This forum is a friendly and accommodating gathering place, but right now, I think that your demands are straining that definition.

[HansV]

I'm locking this thread - it's becoming unpleasant.