Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

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ChrisGreaves
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Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

Untitled.png
Once again I am confused by change.
I would swear I used to be able to choose "Sleep" as an option. In some earlier version of Windows.

I know that Sleep is available on this laptop because when I use the (blue)<Fn> key with the <F4>, the screen goes blank. That is, there is an activity called "Sleep" implemented through the keyboard.
However I hear a great deal of hard-disk thrashing (I know, I know), which suggests to me that this version of Win10 does not have the old "Sleep" procedure.

I think of "Sleep" as a bit of a power-down, but with critical data held in RAM, and I think of "Hibernate" as a power-down but with the RAM image written to disk.
So, "Sleep" is faster to go to, and wake from, than "Hibernate".

Not one of the three drop-downs under "plugged in" shows an option for Sleep, although "Turn off the display" appears under "when I press the sleep button", which makes me ponder the furious hard disk activity mentioned above. It seems to be much more than just turning off the laptop display.

"Choose when to turn off the display" provides timers (1 minute to 5 hours and Never) to turn off the display.

Thanks
Chris
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by HansV »

I forget, do you have Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro?
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by HansV »

Shouldn't you have signed off with "Sleepless in Bonavista"? :grin:
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

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HansV wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 12:48
I forget, do you have Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro?
Untitled.png
Hans, I think that when I don't know what I am running and have to wander around Settings to find out, you can be forgiven for not remembering what O/S one of 87 PAGES of members is running ...

Turns out I have Win10 PRO, and re-installed from a factory-reset three days ago.
Thanks
Chris
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by HansV »

Try this:

Launch Run by pressing the Win + R key on your keyboard.
Type “gpedit.msc” and click OK.
Open the Local Group Policy Editor.
In the new pop-up window, go to Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > File Explorer.
In the right panel in File Explorer, find the power options menu and double-click Show sleep
Next, select Enabled or Not Configured.
Click OK to save the changes you’ve made.
Once again, go back to the Power menu and see if the sleep option has returned.

From: How to fix Sleep Option Missing in Windows 10?
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

HansV wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 14:55
Try this: ...... select Enabled or Not Configured ...[/url]
Power01.png
Power02.png
Thank you Hans.
If I've done it correctly, it should now appear in the "closing lid" box, I think.
It looks as if this hardware does not support sleep, which would explain the hibernate-disk-thrashing when I press <Fn><F4>.
Cheers
Chris
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by JoeP »

IN an elevated command prompt type: "powercfg.exe /a" (sans quotation marks) to see all sleep states supported on your PC.
Joe

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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by BobH »

Would someone please tell me the distinctions in the various modes?

How does 'sleep' differ from 'hibernate?' Does turning off the display have any effect other than to save the power needed to light the screen?

I've never really understood the various modes.


For Chris: Install a large SSD and you won't have to concern yourself with disks humming (or rattling) or how long it takes to retrieve data and to start Windows.
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by BobH »

Would someone please tell me the distinctions in the various modes?

How does 'sleep' differ from 'hibernate?' Does turning off the display have any effect other than to save the power needed to light the screen?

I've never really understood the various modes.


For Chris: Install a large SSD and you won't have to concern yourself with disks humming (or rattling) or how long it takes to retrieve data and to start Windows.
Regards, BobH
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by JoeP »

@BobH,

See System Sleeping States for the Microsoft documentation.
Joe

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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

JoeP wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 21:44
... "powercfg.exe /a" (sans quotation marks) to see all sleep states supported on your PC.

Code: Select all

The following sleep states are available on this system: Hibernate, Fast Startup
The following sleep states are not available on this system: Standby (S1)
The system firmware does not support this standby state. An internal system component has disabled this standby state. Graphics,  Standby (S2)
The system firmware does not support this standby state. An internal system component has disabled this standby state. Graphics, Standby (S3)
An internal system component has disabled this standby state. [b]Graphics[/b], Standby (S0 Low Power Idle)
The system firmware does not support this standby state. Hybrid Sleep, Standby (S3) is not available.
Thank you Joe.
My only use of PowerCfg in the past has been:-

Code: Select all

To remove the hibernation file (3G) from drive C From the Run dialog: “Powercfg.exe -h off” 
At first glance it seems that "Sleep" as I understood it is not supported on this Acer Travelmate laptop.
That said, I am intrigued by the reference to Graphics. Perhaps I have toggled a setting somewhere; I try not to, but I do have a reputation for playing with aspects that I don't understand.

My current state is that I suspect I am a victim of Microsoft's perpetual re-naming of things that were once well understood.
Even that is not true, and I note Bob's question following your post.
In the past I understood "Hibernate" to mean "Reduce power and write to disk" and I thought "Sleep" meant "Reduce power but leave everything in RAM".

I am not terribly worried about power consumption here, nor security/access to the laptop. I have bigger energy hogs than laptops!

I have already been "burned"(grin) by the new definitions of Shutdown (which appears to be a sort of reboot albeit delayed) and restart (which appears to be a reboot).

I shall read the rest of the thread and see where i stand.
Cheers
Chris
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

HansV wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 12:48
I forget, do you have Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro?
(later) Hi Hans.
I thought to inspect the previous laptop - Toshiba Tecra Win7 - and found that in the same situation I had access to "Sleep".
Power02.png
This of course feeds my confusion, because I think that Sleep and Hibernate are functions of Windows, that is, Operating System programmed tasks, rather than hardware/firmware. That leaves me thinking that, well, if it was available in Win7 it will be available in Win10, right?
Wrong! As I should know by now.
On top of that my recent experience with Restart/Shutdown should alert me to the fact that MSoft can change their definition of Sleep/Hibernate at will, which, of course, leads me even deeper into the mire that because this is a MSoft change, it is a software change.

As I showed in my reply to JoeP I was already changing hibernation with a software command, so that reinforces my view that hibernation/sleep is controlled by O/S software, and I never dreamed (in my sleep!) that it could be a function of hardware.

(signed) "amusedly puzzled" of Bonavista
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

BobH wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 22:27
How does 'sleep' differ from 'hibernate?' Does turning off the display have any effect other than to save the power needed to light the screen?
Hi Bob, I'm with you on all of this.
When you say "turning off the display" I assume that you no longer have a desktop monitor with a push-button on the lower right-hand corner.
So when you talk about "turning off the display", do you mean by a direct user action (nowadays clicking on a button or using the keyboard-sleep (<Fn><F4> key combination on this Travelmate laptop) or do you mean by setting up a condition ("when I close the lid ...") that causes the O/S to take action when the user performs some other action (in this case, closing the lid).
To my mind there is a difference between:-
(1) The user causing something to happen immediately and
(2) The user setting up a condition that will cause action sometime in the future.
I've never really understood the various modes.
Well here you see I am way ahead of you. I've understood the various modes for years.
It's only this week that I've learned something new, to wit, that I haven't understood the various modes for years :grin:
For Chris: Install a large SSD and you won't have to concern yourself with disks humming (or rattling) or how long it takes to retrieve data and to start Windows.
I know, I know ....
But note that in this case the audible thrashing of the disk was a usable and useful signal that much was going on behind my back!

Cheers
Chris
Last edited by ChrisGreaves on 22 Sep 2020, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by BobH »

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by JoeP »

@Chris,

The OS queries the firmware to determine the capabilities avilable in the hardware. It then adjusts its settings (or control panel) UI to fit what the hardware/firmware says is available. It is up to the OS to determine how the hardware functionality is exposed and implemented. So, if the hardware says a cetain sleep state is not available it is not presented in the UI.

In your situation, I recommend you investigate any graphics setting you can find to see if there is one that would affect sleep states. If you don't find it in control panel or settings you should check the UEFI/BIOS.
Joe

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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

JoeP wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 22:31
See System Sleeping States for the Microsoft documentation.
I have spent the past week or two trying to work out what I want, and am now of the conclusion that I want several things that are mutually exclusive.
Joe, your reference material clarifies this.

First off, I think of my user action (physical) of "Closing The Lid". If I am in a public place (WiFi cafe etc), I want the lid closure to be a rapid termination of all computer activity and a shut down that requires a cold reboot. Especially the reboot will require a password to my encrypted data drive. HOWEVER if I am sitting at home and Tom calls out, I want a simple physical action "closing the lid" to save all existing/open work and reduce power consumption; when we have finished coffee and Tom goes home I want to open the lid and to continue typing.

So the action "Closing the lid" needs two disparate actions depending on where I am, or at least, the cause of my interruption. Other actions ("Power button" etc.) likewise.

I believe that the current system (Win10) can't do that. Under Win10 "closing the lid" is married to one, and only one result, whether it be shutdown, hibernate, sleep, turn of the display, or sulk.

Secondly: the link led me to a series of states labeled S1, S2, S3 and so on. This made sense to me. I am now thinking that I could assign different "retirement" options according to circumstance.
At home, if I walk away to make another coffee, I am usually back at my desk within six minutes, so under ten minutes, do nothing. I could be taking a short phone call.
At home, if I am away for more than ten minutes then either I have wandered outside to chat to Hubert or David, or have decided to bake more banana bread or ... so over ten minutes, start degrading activity.
In my circumstances there are probably only two thresholds:-
(1) At ten minutes power off the display
(2) At thirty minutes, save whatever is active (so , to hard disk memory) and require a decryption password to startup again (thus protecting my data should I be knocked off my bike for a few weeks in hospital).

Bottom line: I ought really make sure I have a well-defined goal for degrading the system, and only then turn to Win10 Power Plans to see what, if anything, they can do for me. And I should be responsible. If I plan to cycle down to Swyers I should power off my machine on principle.

Cheers
Chris
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

JoeP wrote:
22 Sep 2020, 16:58
...It then adjusts its settings (or control panel) UI to fit what the hardware/firmware says is available. It is up to the OS to determine how the hardware functionality is exposed and implemented.
Thanks Joe. Perfect sense, now, and reasonable. I cannot now go back to Win3.1, 95, XP, etc to see what was going on back then. I am like Bob: I have never really understood what was going on. Only this month have I gone into this at any depth (and obviously I am still dipping my toes in the water!)

For many years I have known that one of the OS's jobs is to present a user-interface to the capabilities of the hardware. Every OS I have ever used has refused to allow me to mount a labelled tape volume unless there were tape drives hooked up to the chassis!
In your situation, I recommend you investigate any graphics setting you can find to see if there is one that would affect sleep states. If you don't find it in control panel or settings you should check the UEFI/BIOS.
If you knew me better you wouldn't have suggested this (HUGE grin). I believe that at my current level of knowledge I am likely to corrupt a working system, to be way out of my depth.
As I suggested in my previous post (5 minutes ago), I am going to think a bit more about what is rational for me in my situation, and implement that.
I may have to change my habits, something I am always reluctant to do, and discipline myself to turning off the machine manually when I want the machine to be turned off.
I reject out of hand any OS that is smart enough to know who is calling me out for coffee and is capable of reading their mind and hence determining just how long the coffee conversation will be. :grin:

Cheers
Chris
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by JoeP »

I seems to me that you need to train yourself to do two different things depending on where you are. For instance, on my system I can set a different action for the power button and lid closure. You could do the same. Assing shut down to one and sleep to the other. Personally, I would assing shut down to the power button and sleep to the lid closure. That just seems more logical to me.

What is required when you restart from a shutdown is dependent on how you configured your system. Either you require a login or the login is done automatically. You can likewise configure a return from sleep to require a loginf or not.
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

JoeP wrote:
24 Sep 2020, 18:39
I seems to me that you need to train yourself to do two different things depending on where you are.
Thanks Joe, i see that now. And Steve Gibson's Wizmo makes that clear, too.
In the past I was driven by what Windows offered ("close the lid", "do nothing for ten minutes" etc), whereas it should be ME who drives the computer; that is, what do ***I*** want to happen under certain circumstances, rather than "what circumstances does Windows recognize".

My requirement when walking away from the machine to get another coffee at home (do nothing, I'm in the next room for five minutes) differs from my requirements when walking away from the machine to get another coffee in the cafe (blank the screen before I rise from my chair)
What is required when you restart from a shutdown is dependent on how you configured your system. Either you require a login or the login is done automatically. You can likewise configure a return from sleep to require a login or not.
I agree here too after some days of thought. My data partition is encrypted, so a (re) start from any sort of shutdown might require that I pass through the Autoexec.bat line of code that mounts the VeraCrypt data drive.

i am mulling all this over as I prepare the beds for bulbs; winter, they say, is getting close!

Cheers and thanks again
Chris
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Re: Win10 - where did "sleep" go?

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ChrisGreaves wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 11:13
My requirement when walking away from the machine to get another coffee at home (do nothing, I'm in the next room for five minutes) differs from my requirements when walking away from the machine to get another coffee in the cafe (blank the screen before I rise from my chair)
Have you tried the original Ctrl_Alt_Del followed by Return?
Leif.