Business laptop Win10Pro

[ChrisGreaves]

This will be a more drastic change than moving to Bonavista, and several of you will be quaking in your boots by the end of this post.

I have an option on a new laptop, a "Business Class" Roger says, with Win10PRO (No?!, YES!!!!), 4GB/500GB etc.
Roger says that a Business Class is usually built to higher specs than a Netflix/Pacman type of laptop, and Win10Pro sounds to me like the sort of thing that Eileen's Lounge Admin folks use. (I could end up appearing smarter than I am)

It is possibly overkill for me (Word2003/VBA and DOS batch files), but then Bonavista is remote, so a machine that doesn't break down sounds attractive (nearest repair shop is 3.5 hours drive away in St John's), and Win10PRO sounds like it ought to work.

The main thing for me is that Roger assures me that it has a Pause/Break key so that I can interrupt a running VBA program.

The cost is $cdn999 before taxes, which will seem hefty to most of you, but I generally amortize computers over about ten to twenty years.


Question: Can you think of a good, practical every-day reason for me NOT to buy this laptop? (It is the only laptop in stock on account of the political decisions to shutdown businesses because of Covid)

For example "It takes seven days to reboot" or "You have to pay $100/month for the Windows updates:" or "It is probably 67 bits instead of 64 bits". Cost is not a big concern for me.
And I may well have to move away from Office2003, but that's another question.

My DELL Inspiron has no Break key, and my Toshiba Tecra now has not a single functioning Ctrl key.

Pension day is Friday.

Thanks
Chris

[StuartR]

...4MB/500GB etc. ...

Business class laptops are generally built to a better physical specification, and are less likely to be damaged by knocks or water. BUT I do hope that 4MB / 500GB are not the specs for the memory and disk drive. These are far too small. I would suggest paying to upgrade to much more memory at least.

[HansV]

Windows 10 Pro should be fine.
Office 2003 is not officially supported on it, but it reportedly can be installed and run without problems.
I assume that you meant 4 GB instead of 4 MB It's still on the low side to my taste. If you want to run many applications side-by-side, I'd prefer 8 GB.
Do you know the brand / model?

[HansV]

See A look at running older versions of Microsoft Office on Windows 10.

I would recommend upgrading to a recent version of Office though. That would entail getting used to the dreaded Ribbon. You'll hate it with a vengeance, but you'll get used to it eventually.

[ChrisGreaves]

Thanks Stuart. My mistake. 4GB RAM. I have asked Roger to email me a brief description.
The Tecra is a 250GB hard drive (Data + Win7HP), so while >500GB would be nice, as an off-the-shelf solution 500GB will suffice. The DELL appears to be 500GB, and that is more than enough for me.
I can ask Roger if he can substitute a bigger drive.
More later ...
Thanks
Chris

[DaveA]

I agree with StuartR that the RAM and drive size are way to small.
I would want at least 8GB RAM and 1 or 2 TB drive.

[ChrisGreaves]

Thanks Stuart. My mistake. 4GB RAM. I have asked Roger to email me a brief description.
The Tecra is a 250GB hard drive (Data + Win7HP), so while >500GB would be nice, as an off-the-shelf solution 500GB will suffice. The DELL appears to be 500GB, and that is more than enough for me.
I can ask Roger if he can substitute a bigger drive.
More later ...
(later)

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Thanks
Chris

[HansV]

It'd be nice to know the actual model. These are the nearest I could find:

TravelMate P2 (with a 14" screen)
TravelMate P2 (USA page; 15.6" screen, 128 GB SSD)

The i3-8130U is not a speed monster, but for most or all that you do that shouldn't be a problem (I assume that you don't play CPU and graphics-intensive games).

[JoeP]

I will never again get a machine with an I3 processor. While it may seem ok to begin it will soon feel very slow and unresponsive. My MINIMUM specs for a new Win10 machine are an I5 processor, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD. No spinning drives as the OS drive anymore. I'd even buy a year old machine off eBay with good specs before a new PC with what I consider substandard specs. A couple of years ago I found a model-year old open box Dell XPS-13 with an I7, 8GB, 512SSD, and a 4K display for my wife at more than $600 off the Dell list at the time. It was still not cheap but it was a great deal. I'd also consider a refurb or off lease from a MAJOR vendor.

[ChrisGreaves]

... but for most or all that you do that shouldn't be a problem (I assume that you don't play CPU and graphics-intensive games).

Correct.
Most of what I do is write documents, analyse text (indexing documents, parsing web pages) and any "long" jobs I am inclined to run overnight. I have WinAmp running non-stop on 18,000 MP3 tracks.
I haven't run CPU/graphics intensive games since Chuck Yeager's Flight Simulator ran on my Compaq 286 luggable (orange-dot matrix screen, 5.25" floppy, ...)

This Toshiba Tecra would continue to suit me fine if the two Ctrl keys hadn't got jammed up with fluff (I suspect) under the keyboard. I notice recently that it has begun to overheat.

Thanks, Hans
Chris

[stuck]

My thoughts:
CPU: minimum i5
RAM: minimum 8GB
Drive type: SSD
Drive capacity: depends:
    if the machine is your main device, minimum of 1TB
    if it's a secondary machine for casual use, minimum of 512 GB
Brand: depends:
    at work we all have DELL Latitudes, I'd happily buy one*
    within my family we've all had a lot of fun with Acer machines
OS: Win 10 Pro, because that's what I've got on my desktop machine and I like the Group Policy Editor options it offers for controlling Windows Updates

Ken
* I'm keeping my eye on the website where I got my (refurb.) DELL desktop a couple of years ago. I'm fairly sure I'll be able to pick up a DELL Latitude there in the next few months, to replace my 2012 vintage Win7 Starter Edition netbook that has been a very faithful companion on my travels since that time.

PS didn't there used to be a :twocents: smiley?

[Argus]

I agree with the other fellow loungers; I'd prefer 8 GB RAM. (HDD is OK in size, but can be changed for a SSD.) With some limited experience, I also agree with Stuart about "Business class", that's better physical specification, better hinges, sometimes the screen), just everything; often easier to maintain and upgrade (easier access under; sometimes possible to add several drives (by removing the DVD) etc.

I also agree with Hans (and Joe) about the CPU; it's in the in the (now rather broad) midrange (I'd say lower end). "U" means ultra-low-power (i.e. around 15 W or below), found in smaller notebooks (that said they would all be ultra-low-power, i3, i5 or i7). It's a dual core (4-threads). I see no problem if it's this years' model or it's 18 months old, it's the performance that matters. One can often get a quick idea about the performance by looking at a simple benchmark such as this, average CPU Mark is 3528. (You can do a search or look at the pages at the site for other computers you have and compare.)

The combination of an i3, even if 8th gen., and a HDD could make it feel a bit slow; I would prefer a SSD (saves some weight and get great disk performance).

[HansV]

PS didn't there used to be a :twocents: smiley?

Yes, but it is :2cents:

[kdock]

My Samsung laptop has i7, 8G Ram and 256G SSD. It has a 15" screen with very tiny print unless I blow it up. It boots almost instantaneously and works great with Office 365, Affinity Photo, and Camtasia. The only thing I would change about the specs is the size of the SSD -- I would go with 512G. I will never buy another HDD again, so consider that a warning. I don't think anyone can go back. And I've found over the years that no matter what I do on my computer, 512G holds it all with Gs to spare. I do have a Synology server with 2 x 1T SSDs in a raid array for backups.

Kim

[John Gray]

* Without question you should get an SSD of the size you require, to replace the 500GB hard drive.

* 8GB of RAM is a good number, although if you aren't doing very much with the laptop you'd probably get away with 4GB. But memory is fairly cheap, so why bother?!

* Agree that an i3 is too slow. In fact, I've never used a computer with an i3! Think of the dreaded Celeron CPU chips in the days of the dual-core Pentiums!

* no information given about the screen resolution, or the webcam resolution

* I would want more USB 3 sockets than one

* And as for 999 Canadian dollars (about £600 in Real Money) before tax, that seems like an awful lot for a cheap Acer (which IMNVHO is not a business class manufacturer). Why not look for a second-hand Lenovo or Dell or HP, ex-business, for about two-thirds to half the price of this Acer? (Says he, having bought 20 Lenovo T440 laptops towards the end of last year...) Or get a much better spec for the same price...

* Oh, and the other point to mention is that you should have bought the laptop in March, before the Coronavirus lockdown. Second hand machines have increased in price by at least 50% since then, because of the 'working at home' ==> hen's teeth phenomenon...

[HansV]

you should have bought the laptop in March, before the Coronavirus lockdown.

Rub it in, John!

[John Gray]

you should have bought the laptop in March, before the Coronavirus lockdown.

Rub it in, John!

Unfortunately, timing is everything! I've had to buy a couple of S/H laptops during this lockdown period, and was staggered at the increased price.

* the other point I forgot to mention is whether or not Chris needed a DVD drive, becoming increasingly rare in new laptops. A USB external DVD drive costs about £15-£20.

Examples of second-hand ex-business laptops available in the UK (move back home, Chris, all is forgiven!) can be found here, sorted as most expensive first. Not an i3 among them!

[stuck]

...* And as for 999 Canadian dollars (about £600 in Real Money) before tax, that seems like an awful lot for a cheap Acer (which IMNVHO is not a business class manufacturer)...

Agreed on both points:
1) The most expensive laptop on the site that John links to is about $CDN830.00 after tax.
2) I don't know of a business that buys Acer. DELL/HP/Lenovo are the usual suspects in that world.

Ken

[BobH]

Don't buy it!

There are too few cores (i3); there is too little disk space; there is no SSD. I would want a lot more RAM too but that might not be an option on a laptop.

My zwei pfennig, doncha know.

[PJ_in_FL]

Chris,

With only 4GB RAM, the HDD will be running non-stop due to page memory transfers if you open Word and Excel at the same time. That's all it took for my previous laptop to start spinning. I rebelled when it came time to upgrade and now run an I7 with 32 GB. Paging doesn't happen.

I'd suggest a minimum of 8GB RAM. Don't yet have experience with SSD vs HDD in real world use so the added cost of SDD might have to be weighed against the better reliability of the SSD vs. spinning HDDs.

Also, since you mention your computer costs are spread out over a very long lifetime, I'd strongly recommend pushing the specs even higher. Something down the road will need more/faster/better of something, and getting it now will save in the long run.