File types produced Windows(10) Device back up ways/Methods

[Doc.AElstein]

Different Files and File types produced in Windows (10) Device back up ways / Methods

Hi
I have spent a lot longer than I wanted to trying to understand about Driver back up generally, and in particular for Windows 10.
I do realise that Windows 10 during instillation and via updates is very good at keeping drivers update, so I don’t need to worry too much about them.. But my purpose of the exercise has been part of a general attempt to understand how Windows and Windows 10 works.

I am particularly confused with the different files that are produced by the different ways of doing it.

I do have an initial summary here, http://www.excelfox.com/forum/showthrea ... #post12662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , along with over 300 posts starting here, http://www.excelfox.com/forum/showthrea ... #post12122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , showing various cross checks and comparisons of files obtained from the various ways.. , but I don’t think you will want to view any of that. I certainly don’t. But I did it, and have attempted a very very brief summary here..

These are the ways I compared, on a new working, Windows 10 computer..

_ Files generated via a cmd or Powershell command ( The Black or Blue Window command line stuff )
_ Manually made listed from inspection of the Device Properties in the Device Manager Devices List. ( Lets call these Device Manager Properties List )
_ The back up files produced by a commonly used 3rd party Software, DoubleDriver
_ The files in the folder drivers ( typically found at like… C:\Windows\System32\drivers )
_ The files in the folder DriverStore ( typically found at .. C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore )

Here is a very brief summary of my findings..
The number of files generated by cmd or Powershell is relatively small. I can’t see that being of much use.

The files indicated in the manually made list from inspection of the Device Manager Properties List , Device Manager Properties List, are almost all to be found in the back up files produced by the Software, DoubleDriver . But there are lots of other files and file types in that list from Double Driver

Most of the files indicated in Device Manager Properties List, are given as being in the folder \drivers. That is to say, the path indicated is almost always to … C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS……
But , in fact, they are not there at all, unless you compare with files names with extension .sys type from Device Manager Properties List to files with the same name but with a different extension, .sys.mui in the folder \drivers
In addition they appear in a Folder with the name \de-De .
So the full path is different to that given in Device Manager Properties List: - In fact the full path is actually like
C:\Windows\System32\drivers\de-DE\______.sys.mui
, not as indicated as
C:\Windows\System32\drivers\______.sys
I find approximately half the .sys files that are indicated in the Device Manager Properties List at … drivers\de-DE\______.sys.mui

Most of the files indicated in the Device Manager Properties List , are found in the \DriverStore folder, but they are grouped in many folders each with a few files in them. These small Folders are then themselves in a Folder with the name \FileRepository . So we are looking at a path of like
C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\OneOfManyFoldersWithAFewFilesInIt\_____

In order to find the files in the back up from Double Driver in \drivers Folder, then once again we must compare .sys files from the Double Driver back up to .sys.mui in \drivers\de-DE\__ .
But we have a lot of other files and file types in Double Driver which are not to be found in the folder \drivers

Almost all the files given in the back up from Double Driver are to be found in the folder \DriverStore.
But in addition there are a lot of extra files and file types in the Folder \DriverStore

These are the three things, I would be interested in any comments to..
_1) My research has chucked up thousands of information on the internet to explain how to do the different ways. I can’t find any information to explain the different results from the different ways, not even at sites explaining more than one of the ways. This is what is puzzling me the most. Has anyone got any explanation or comments on the different results obtained from the different ways
_2) The cmd/power shell way seems not much use
_3) Why don’t people just copy the entire \DriverStore and be done with it. Since that would appear to me to have all ( and more ) than you need.

I realise, that some things may become clearer when I do a re install and then look again at the Driver issue.
But I doubt I will get around to that for a while. So I just thought I would see if anyone has any comments on my observations so far.

Thanks

Alan

[CraigS26]

A guest "expert" on the AskWoody.com blog offered this article for backing-up W10 & 7 Drivers, and HOW he did it is all I can offer.
I DO trust his expertise for capturing All essential Drivers should (ie) a corrupted driver occur, but I cannot reconcile this with the Double Driver issue..
I got 135 Drivers from the method and IF you accept this is a good backup plan maybe you can re-state questions from there - If Not relevant to your real needs, advise and Hans will pick-up from there.
https://www.askwoody.com/newsletter/eas ... angalist-0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HansV]

Hans is afraid that he doesn't know anything about this...

[Doc.AElstein]

Thanks, Craig.
I will look at that linked thing , and report back.
( Unfortunately I have done this work on and off over a period of a couple of months, and despite my best efforts I could not stop getting hit with updates. I hope that has not changed too much. Otherwise I will have to start again to get an accurate comparison… The actual copying of files in folders, , and running cmd and DoubleDriver, and painstakingly copying by hand all paths given in Device Manager Properties , etc… I tried to do that all within as short a time as possible, so as to avoid getting complications due to things changing. But it took me a long while to then do all the comparisons. ( I did use VBA coding to do it, otherwise it would have taken me a few years... ) )

Alan

[DaveA]

I have always understood that the "installed" drivers are not of much use, one needs the "File" that the drivers were installed from.

I have yet to see from any one, how these installed drivers are to be restored from backup?

[StuartR]

I keep the installation files, and back them up, so that I can reinstall if needed. The installation doesn't only put files in the right folders, it also sets registry entries, and other configuration information.

[kdock]

I have yet to see from any one, how these installed drivers are to be restored from backup?

I'm with Stuart, Dave. I keep the install files on a usb drive. I think the only way to restore installed drivers is by restoring an image.

Kim

[DaveA]

Good, then I am not alone with this.
Thanks for the confirmation

[Doc.AElstein]

Different Files and File types produced in Windows (10) Device back up ways / Methods

Some extra notes following changes made to my Windows 10 computer by a major update attack.

Hi
I am a bit delayed in reporting back here to the comments made. – I am into my second week of investigating the changes and repairing the damage done by the first major update to my new Windows 10 computer since I had it from new a couple of months back, ….. so I had to take a quick re look because my comparison measurements got messed up when a lot of things were changed…

The update attack has thrown a bit of a spanner in the works as regard my researching/ comparing of back up files, since amongst a lot other things, the files associated with drivers, and the files produced from the different ways that I mentioned in my first post are now different. I am in the middle of a full analysis for my research notes, ( http://www.excelfox.com/forum/showthrea ... #post12668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) . Here in this post is just a brief summary, out of passing interest.

( Next post is some specific feedback to the replies given to me )

Probably the change that has most effected my conclusion is that the cmd/ powershell command way now produces a lot more files. It is quite strange. Previously the only files produced by this way was some 3rd party printer drivers and some graphic drivers. Along with now extra files, those files are still to be found in the list from the cmd/ powershell command way … But.. those printer driver files are amongst a lot of driver files removed by the update from the large C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore folder.
Those files are also missing now from the manually made list from Device Manager Properties and the list from the 3rd party Software DoubleDriver. The missing files are the main difference to the List from the Device Manager Properties and the DoubleDriver before and after the update attack
It is difficult to understand the conclusion from the cmd/ powershell command way.
But something quirky is going on there. I have reported in previous posts here that the “wmic” way of getting update lists is unreliable, and in particular was not helpful in finding problem updates .
I think in my uneducated naivety that DISM wmic and the “ cmd/ powershell command way “ are all part of the same stuff… sort of..

The list from cmd/ powershell way may possibly of been of some use in the past. I do not understand what it does currently. A reasonable conclusion might be that it is broke and don’t do whatever it should. Or it is used now as a tool by Microsoft, and they are not telling what… Another possibility is that it is part of the tools used in the “Roll backs”. This might explain how it finds files that other ways suggest has been removed.
( For a short while after the update attack some extra files were showing, with a folder name of DriverStore & date.
Further research suggest these back up Folders stay a while, but my experience suggests they do not stay as long as others have reported in the past. This is consistent with the general policy of Microsoft to reduce the possibility to defer / change / or repair anything they do. )

It is very difficult for me to make precise conclusions due to my lack of experience so far with windows 10, but it would appear that updates have a general tendency to remove drivers for third party things and/ or break those things if they are connected at the time of the update. The initial limited experience suggest one may need to chose between reinstalling drivers for things if you disconnect them or repairing the things themselves, if you leave them connected during a major update attack.
There may also be some other correlation with some changed or removed driver files and some broken things.
The changes seen in the list produced by third party software way or the Device Manager Property way is not very large, and does not reflect the large amount of changes made in the composition of the drivers and DriverStore Folders


I have spent a lot of time over 30 extra sides making notes of the changes since the updaters. The short approximate conclusion here , for now, is that my previous conclusions in the first post about File types produced in Windows(10) Device back up way /Methods have not changed too much.

Next post is some specific feedback to the replies given to me…

Alan

[Doc.AElstein]

@ CraigS

guest "expert" on the AskWoody.com blog offered this article for backing-up W10 & 7 .. … trust his expertise for capturing All essential Drivers …. cannot reconcile this with the Double Driver issue.. … I got 135 Drivers from

Thanks again Craig. _one small useful thing from that article from Fred Langa.. the article mentions to Show hidden devices in the Device Manager. I had not done that previously. In my case it just reveals three extra devices, giving me in total 34 new paths listed, all of which are not unique, so in total I have 9 new files. I have added those to my lists http://www.excelfox.com/forum/showthrea ... #post12665" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , and am doing some re cross checking. I don’t think it effect my conclusions too much, but I like to be thorough, so that was useful to know about

He mentions two of the ways I used
_ 1 - the cmd/powwershell way. In both my previous post I mention that this way looks very dodgy. I also get a file list, currently about 232 for a standard “virgin” machine that has never had much of anything added to it since new. But those files seem not to be much useful in terms of driver back up. It is a bit of a mystery what the files generated by the cmd/powwershell way are supposed to represent.
_ 2 - 3rd Party Software. He mentions DriverBackup. I never came across this in my previous research. There are a few free driver software. DoubleDriver is the one most reported. I used that mostly in my comparison of the different ways. I repeated some measurements using DoubleDriver and DriverBackup. The files produced are almost identical. DoubleDriver has been around for a long time.
I don’t know how / why Fred Langa picked on DriverBackup in preference to DoubleDriver, which is the more commonly known about and used.

I can’t be over critical yet , because I have not yet got as far as thing to use the back up to install any driver. But my feeling at this stage is that the article of Fred Langa is another of hundreds of repeats of a few ways to get a few files stored which might have something to do with drivers but of which no one has ever bothered to compare the lists or let alone try to use them.
But I do intend at some time in the future Trying to install from the various different back up lists that I have.
I will report back here and modify / add to my comments and conclusions appropriately.

One last point here. I am personally doing this all as an exercise in understanding Windows and Windows 10 in particular. I am surprised that anyone who knows about Windows 10 would write an article about backing up drivers. It is almost impossible to stop Windows 10 installing and / or de installing and re installing drivers as and when it wants to. But, getting the right drivers seems to be one of the few things updates usually gets right. That is based on my research reading, not any of my own experience.. so once again, I will know more once I have tried to use any of the lists I have been making, and I will report back after doing that.

( I don’t really know what that “askwoody” site is all about. It seems a bit of a jumble with no clear structure to navigate. I guess I would need some time to figure out how to use the place. I guess it is just what you get used to. I am used to the Portal and board list index thing type Forum )
_._______________________________________________

@ Kim , Dave, Stuart.
Thanks for the comments. What you are saying ties up to some extent with some things I have been reading in my research
Whilst there is a large amount of info, which I tried to summarise in my first post, I have not been at all impressed with it. For me it lacks a detailed investigation which includes both
_ comparing the different files given by the different ways,
and more importantly
_ I have rarely seen a detailed discussion of actually using the files successfully to install drivers.


The information which does shows specifically in detail successfully installing drives uses either the original manufactures files, either supplied from / with the device or from the manufacturers site. Often a driver file has different versions for different operating systems. So that ties up with your comments.
Having said this, some of the back up ways do suggest you can use them to re install drivers. I have not got around to trying this yet. I will do that in the ( distant probably ) future. I will report back my findings here.

( I have next to no real experience yet at actually installing drivers. ( A while back I re installed a Vista operating system. After I did it some things did not work and some yellow warning symbols showed in the Device Manager List . I had laying around a few of those cheap driver/repair DVDs that you see offered cheap everywhere. I put them in and ran them a few times. Eventually all the yellow warnings went away and everything worked. I did not think too much about it at the time.. ) )

Thanks


Alan