Transferring VHS Tapes to DVD - Calling All Video Experts!!

[BobH]

This post might belong somewhere else, the Scuttlebutt seems the best place to start.

I recently received the gift of a Magnovox VHS/DVR player-recorder. It will dub in both directions. I've set it up and successfully transferred an old tape or 2 to DVD; so this is not a question about equipment or how to use it but one about best practices for highest quality results. Quite simply, what are the best settings to get the best results?

Further, the tapes I want to copy are mostly things I recorded on vacations, holidays, and special events over the years. The VHS tapes are the result of recording from camcorder tapes to the VHS format. The nature of the early technology made editing on the fly tedious, difficult and generally not worth the effort. (Believe me, I tried!) Now that I can create a DVD, it seems to me that I should be able to do simple editing using a computer to remove the dross of bad shooting and tracking problems from the final result. I don't expect to edit individual frames or even try to affect overall quality (unless there is software that makes this easily done); I just want to get rid of the bad parts.

I realize that multiple generations results in multiple losses of signal quality. What I want to know is what, if any, variables can I control in the dubbing process (VHS to DVD) or in the computer editing process to preserve the highest quality results? For example, when dubbing, I'm asked to choose a time duration for the recording. My understanding (even if incorrect) is that this sets up the DVD for formatting (somehow), but I don't know if it controls image loss. What are the issues involved in controlling video and audio signal loss that I should be concerned about given the limits of my off-the-shelf dubbing equipment? Similarly what issues are involved if I load the DVD to a hard drive in order to edit the footage?

Finally, what about adding voice-over narrative and adding titles, controlling segue ways, etc? Should a non-expert be able to add these when computer editing? What freeware do you recommend for editing video? Is there a web-based article or forum that you can recommend?

Thank you for any assistance. As ever, help will be gratefully received and greatly appreciated.

bob

[Claude]

I use Cyberlink Powerdirector 9 to do all my editing, be it VHS, digital tape or HD recordings.

Take a look at it to see what you can do with your recordings, it take a while to understand everything in it, but, in the end, I'm sure you'll be impressed. I've been using Cyberlink products for a few years now and am very happy with them.

[Bowlie]

We have a DVR and when I tried to copy an old VHS tape it wouldn't do it due to 'protection'. Now I own a fair few tapes but the VHS system isn't going to last forever. Any way to 'legally' copy (one for one, destroying tape afterwards)?

[BobH]

The question of legality aside - I'm not qualified to speak on that topic - there are a number of websites that offer software or instructions on how to copy VHS tapes that are copy protected. I don't know what equipment is required or how devices are connected to use the software.

He is a sample that I turned up using "Copying VHS Tapes with Copy Protection" as my google argument.

http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Video-Recorder.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Doc Watson]

We have a DVR and when I tried to copy an old VHS tape it wouldn't do it due to 'protection'. Now I own a fair few tapes but the VHS system isn't going to last forever. Any way to 'legally' copy (one for one, destroying tape afterwards)?

If you bought them originally, you can make all the copies for personal use you like. It's legal and the only fair way to handle digital rights. The industry response to the digital copyiong age is nothing more than sour grapes. Nothing was ever said when folks compiled cassette tapes of various songs from their collections. Now, in response to a new technology they want money for their "rights". OK, fine... I want my rights to copy anything I want for personal use and enjoyment, adinfinitum, that is out in the public domain. The concept is called sharing and has been around as long as there has been more than one of any life form and only one item of anything available to them.

Rant off.

[Bowlie]

Well luckily I don't live in the 'excited states', where defeating 'digital rights management' is a crime. In fact we pay a tax here on every recording media, from a cassette tape to an iPod, to compensate copywrite owners from the fact that we might use them to copy something. It looks like I'm going to have to spend some more money though on a 'stabilizer' (sic) in order to exercise my rights. PITA!

[ChrisGreaves]

The nature of the early technology made editing on the fly tedious, difficult and generally not worth the effort.

I bought a deck like yours 3 years ago and started using it in earnest 18 months ago.
I have it programmed to record a PBS channel each weeknight 7pm-3am onto a DVD.
First thing each morning I play back the DVD in 1/2 hour chunks and I note on a piece of paper the time marks for any good documentaries that I managed to snag.
Then I append to a VHS TAPE the one or sometimes two good documentaries (45 to 58 minuets⁽¹⁾ long, usually).
Since I have noted the start/stop times I can set my portable oven timer to BEEP two minutes before the end of a documentary.
When the documentary is ended I stop the DVD playback, fast-forward to the next chunk, start dubbing and set the timer again.
Once the 1 or 2 shows are appended to VHS TAPE I erase the DVD and set it up for this night's recording.

Come Friday the VHS TAPE is full, so I just dump it back to a DVD; I accumulate a week's worth of documentaries on a single DVD.
The BEEP every 50 minutes gets me out of my chair (not a bad thing).

Using the DVD/VHS deck doesn't tie up the computer.

I am not too worried about quality, since
(a) I'm transcribing digital data, aren't I?
(b) I'm recording from rabbit-ears anyway.
(c) The TV is about 13 years old and is 13" diagonal

I should add that I record up to 4 movies from the same channel on Saturday nights and accumulate them in a similar manner.

I currently have 53 DVDs, each with 3 or more movies, and 34 DVD's packed with documentary.
I'd rather read books than watch TV, but i can't resist getting something for free.

Even if it is valueless ...



⁽¹⁾ Assuming it's a dance program!

[BobH]

Hi Chris!

That is a clever use of the technology. You now qualify for a pair of the oxford clever clogs (assuming HansV is OK with it ).

Can you tell me how the VHS and DVD compare capacity wise? IOW will a DVD hold a complete VHS tape or does the VHS have more capacity than the DVD?

I have years of programs that were captured from PBS onto VHS and I want to transfer them to DVD. The VHS tapes are probably at their maximum usage (SLP or whatever the greatest capacity settings were used to record them). I need to know if I can rely upon the capacity of DVD disks to capture them in their entirety or if I'm going to need to intervene to keep from creating gaps or having partial programs on a DVD. I'm using DVD-R blanks but I don't know their capacity in either bytes or analog time terms.

Thanks for the post.

[ChrisGreaves]

Can you tell me how the VHS and DVD compare capacity wise? IOW will a DVD hold a complete VHS tape or does the VHS have more capacity than the DVD?

I use SLP (a.k.a really cheap!) rather than SP or anything else.
The longest tapes I have are about 6h15m, the DVDs seem to hold 6h15m, so they are much of a muchness.
I picked up a slew of useless tapes at The Markland Woods garage sale a few years back, so the tapes aren't/weren't new.
The Jane Fonda Exercise tapes let me record about 2h at SLP if I want to do something like hive off a Joanna Lumley episode (The Nile, Cats etc.) i.e. scratch pad tapes.
I use three 6h15m tapes at most - one for the nightly documentaries, one for Saturday movies, and one as a spare
(I recorded Coronation Street for my friend while she was away. 5 complete episodes. Talk about a waste of bandwidth ...)


If you are serious about packing stuff tight, you might want to consider my Best Fit VBA code, with which you can
(1) Pack movies tighter than a ... on DVDs
(2) Pack MP3 files tighter than ... on CDs
(3) Optimize your use of steel tubing if you are into making musical bells
(4) Best-fit your toolbars if you are still using anything earlier than Office 2007
Comes with the obligatory steak-knives ...

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[ChrisGreaves]

I'm using DVD-R blanks but I don't know their capacity in either bytes or analog time terms.

Hi again, Bob.
I had problems with DVD about a year ago.
I can't see much point in DVD-R for home use.
Being able to overwrite stuff can't hurt, can it?

I assume that for home movies of your grandchildren (if not yourself) you'll burn the DVDs to a peta-byte external drive anyway, if only to enjoy watching a re-run of Defraggler.

[BobH]

Hi Chris!

Thanks for refreshing my recollection about your experience with DVD media. I remember reading that post of yours some few months back. I'm using DVD-R because that's what I have at hand. When I need (or choose) to buy some more, I will be sure to buy DVD+RW because I, too, have a Magnavox VHS/DVD, bi-directional dubbing, player/recorder and suspect that it has the same technical capacities as yours.

At the moment I want to transfer some VHS tapes of a popular PBS program to DVD. The tapes (10 of them) are packed running SP or SLP (not sure how to determine this). I suspect that they contain the maximum number of individual programs which I would guess to be about 6 hours (again, not sure how to find out short of playing them). Should I give up on the DVD-R disks and go buy some DVD+RW from Staples?

As for other dubbing, I've already done an unedited copy of a VHS created from camcorder tapes (making the disks 3rd generation, at best) of a trip we took to Vancouver, BC in '88. This was a test run to learn how to do dubbing. I'm not at all pleased with the quality but attribute its poorness to the inadequacies of the VHS technology that I created the original VHS. I think I still have the original camcorder tapes - and the old camcorder - which I intend to transfer to DVD. Do you have any experience of using the Magnavox unit with external feeds? I'm hopeful that using the original tapes will improve the quality of the final DVD.

Although I'm pushing '70, I have no grandchildren but harbor eternal hope that our daughter will make me a grandpa before I die. I do have a lot of film of her because we were past 40 when she was born. I intend to go back through my camcorder film and my VHS library to convert as much as I can to DVD. I'm still trying to get my brain around video editing software. The glossary of terms, alone, is daunting much less trying to understand how to use software.

Thank you again - VERY MUCH INDEED - for the helpful information in your posts.

Bob

[ChrisGreaves]

Thanks for refreshing my recollection about your experience with DVD media.

Hi Bob.
Refreshing to you, painful to me (grin!)

I'm using DVD-R because that's what I have at hand.

I think that when you've recorded to a DVD-R, that's IT. You can never do anything with that DVD again.
If you know you're going to need more disks, buy some DVD-RW today, and use them over and over again while you experiment and get the hang of all this.
Do remember that it wasn't until I read the front cover of the manual that I learned that only specific brands were suitable.
Keep your receipts. Staples was OK about refunding/replacing. I must have gone through half their stock. I began to switch stores, like a guilt-ridden alcoholic.

... because I, too, have a Magnavox VHS/DVD, bi-directional dubbing, player/recorder and suspect that it has the same technical capacities as yours.

At long last! I'm the recognized expert on something in the lounge. The Magnavox MWR20V6.

The tapes ... are packed running SP or SLP (not sure how to determine this).

I think you'll find that the Magnavox knows, so you won't have to know in order to play them, but yes, the only way i know how to find out is to play the little devils. (Actually I think you can start to play the tape, then after 5 seconds fast-forward and walk away. Come back in 2 minutes and read the clock).

Do you have any experience of using the Magnavox unit with external feeds?

Only once (see "Coronation Street" in the previous message.).
I yanked the red/yellow/white cables from somewhere in her rats nest and plugged them into the front of the Magnavox. Then I remembered that I'd forgotten how to switch the inputs. At the same time I remembered that, I remembered that I'd forgotten to remember to bring the user manual with me. You know how it goes ...

I intend to go back through my camcorder film and my VHS library to convert as much as I can to DVD. I'm still trying to get my brain around video editing software. The glossary of terms, alone, is daunting much less trying to understand how to use software.

I found that the Magnavox is pretty well idiot-proof, (Note ¹) although it was a year before I found the Mon-Fri time slot in the screens; the manual says it exists, but doesn't tell you how to access it. (Note ²)

My advice: spend a half-hour at a time experimenting and making DVD sets of the more obvious stuff.

Note ¹: Which tells you something about me, I suppose!

Note ²: You get angry about some other feature and press buttons randomly and it pops up when you least expect it. By then you have buttoned past it, so you know it exists but there's no Ctrl-Z on the remote.

[ChrisGreaves]

This post might belong somewhere else, the Scuttlebutt seems the best place to start.

I'm terribly sorry, and i do apologise.

I mis-read the subject line.
I thought it said "expats", and being an expatriate of at least 2 countries I figured I was qualified to respond ...

[BobH]

After being properly chastised by Chris G, I'm posting a PM I sent to him and a follow up here to share my question and the answer I found to it so that anyone reading now or doing searches might have the benefit of it. -bh

Hi Chris!

May I pick you brain?

For reasons I cannot fathom, the DVD produced from dubbing a VHS tape on the Marvelous Mysterious Magnavox Moviemaker (MMMM) has an aspect ratio of 352 wide by 480 height (which I think are pixel array dimensions) when I load it into Handbrake. I also notice that the preview screen size is taller than it is wide, too. When I load the file into Avidemux2 software, the computer displays the output in the weird ratio, too.

I can find nothing in the manual or in the settings that tells me how to control the aspect ratio produced on the DVD. In manual there is a table showing all the settings and their sub-menu options, explaining each. In it I find, under Display Setup, a setting for TV Aspect with the explanation: "Set a picture size according to aspect ratio of your TV."

Nowhere can I find a control that allows me to stipulate the aspect ratio for the recorded disk. Do you know how - or why - the dubbing process would produce a digitized file with a weird aspect ratio with the height dimension greater than the width?

I'm familiar with 4:3 and 16:9 as the most common aspect ratios on TVs. I've never seen an aspect ratio where the width was less than the height. I can find nothing googling or posting on the Avidumux2 Forum that explains the 352x480 that I find.

Color me confused.

. . . and the follow up PM I sent Chris.

Hi Chris!

You are right, of course. I didn't think it through, I guess. I was afraid that I would be wasting bandwidth for others.

I found out since PM'ng you that 352x480 is a standard DVD format. I had feared that I had done something wrong while dubbing and was relieved to learn that I had not.

I wanted to get an answer before proceeding because of the significant amounts of time required to copy, load, and edit. I didn't want to have to go back to the dubbing step after having been through all the steps.

Thanks for the response. I'll try to do better next time.

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

[ChrisGreaves]

After being properly chastised by Chris G, ...

I didn't chastise him.
All I said was, in effect, that the Lounge was a great place to store technical information.
Kind of like a VHS tape.
I thought that his two PMs were a valuable wrap-up to the discussion so far ...

[BobH]

After being properly chastised by Chris G, ...

I didn't chastise him.
All I said was, in effect, that the Lounge was a great place to store technical information.
Kind of like a VHS tape.
I thought that his two PMs were a valuable wrap-up to the discussion so far ...

Chris is absolutely correct - again!

He did not chastise, nor rebuke, nor even frown at me. He simply stated that he thought the exchange should be public instead of private that others might benefit from it.

Sorry, Chris!

[ChrisGreaves]

I recently received the gift of a Magnovox VHS/DVR player-recorder. It will dub in both directions.

Hi Bob. I'm back.

Are you heading towards copying the movies (DVD/VCR etc.) to a readable format on a hard drive?
I ask because from time to time I see a a few seconds or minutes of a documentary I'd like to keep.
it might be a shot of a place I've lived or whatever, and I think "I'd like to snag that!".

I have a vague idea that I should be able to carry the netbook to the Magnavox, plug in a cable, and capture a few minutes of signal on the netbook then, back at my desk, convert it or save it somehow to something Ii can play in WinAmp or a similar program.

[BobH]

You are way ahead of me, Chris!

I would assume that you are correct about being able to snag netbook video, but it seems to me that transferring the snagged file via a flash drive to your desktop where you can burn a DVD. Having said that, however, if your netbook has output ports for video and audio, the Magnavox has input ports on the front side to receive those signals.

Let me know how you get along with this.

[ChrisGreaves]

I would assume that you are correct about being able to snag netbook video, but it seems to me that transferring the snagged file via a flash drive to your desktop where you can burn a DVD.

Hi Bob!
Actually the other way around.
I have grabbed a TV signal from the air and stored a clip on a DVD on the Magnavox.
Now I want to transfer it FROM my Magnavox TO the PC.

I had in mind being able to play back the DVD to the spot I want, click a tool and capture the signal from the Maganavox and store it on the PC.

[BobH]

OK. I see what you want to do now (doh!).

I think you will have to rip the DVD in its entirety into a format (maybe MP4) that will make your computer happy. I think the Magnavox encodes the DVD in a .VOB file which must be converted for the computer. (At least that's the way I understand it.) Once you have converted the VOB file you then can edit it in other software on your computer. My process was to copy the DVD in native format to my HDD. I then ripped it with software (I think I used Handbrake) to create an MP4 file. I can read that file with Avidemux2 and select whatever frames I want into another file.

If there is a more direct way, I don't know what it is and would be grateful if anyone could simplify it for me. My one caveat is that I must use free software as my retirement financial officer insists that I spend no money except for blank DVD disks.