Calling all Carpenters

[ChrisGreaves]

No, not that team; YOU as an individual!

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My neighbour Jennifer has been and taken my money on the grounds that she has reorganized my kitchen, study, living-room etc. (See "Spiced meat") coming to a Cooking Forum near you Real Soon Now.

She is a fanatic, and says that margarine cartons of wood screws should not be stored in the living-room. So I am not allowed out to play until all fasteners (including the drawer in the shed) are organized. By me.
I have managed to split them into screws, nails, bolts, washers, nuts.
The screws have been further subdivided into Robertson, Phillips, and Flat-blade screws.
My preference is for Robertsons, so about 85% of my collection is Robertson.
I have stored those into labeled and trimmed-down cream cartons (I need to buy more cream!) ranging in length from 3 1/2" in 1/4" decrements down to 3/4" and shorter.

I am mostly keen on splitting the results into two types based on the size of the hole in the screw-head, so I can get away with just two screwdrivers for Robertson - the orange handled that fits big holes and the green-handled for smaller holes. Same deal for Phillips and Flats.

I have to hand (image above) three boxes of Robertson screws,
all one-inch
but of #10, #8 and #6 calibres.
What do those numbers mean?
I suspect that these are North American values, not for consumption in the UK or Australia.


Also, if possible, where on a packet would I find data that describes the hole/screwdriver size?

Thanks in Advance.
Chris

[HansV]

Does Wikipedia help?

[Leif]

Or this: https://www.diynot.com/tools-and-materials/screw-sizes/

[BobArch2]

https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions ... crew-sizes

For your reading pleasure…

[BobH]

Nephew (aka OMG), I suggest you invest in one of these.

Klein 10 in 1.png

I think it will suit all of your screwdriver needs plus give you several sizes of nut driver.

[Graeme]

When I was an Electrician the screw of choice for fixing things to walls was the trusty 1¼ x 8. If it was a bit heavier it was an 1½" x 10. And if it was really heavy then a 2" x 12.

I never did find out what the 8, 10 and 12 diameter numbers meant!

Graeme

[ChrisGreaves]

HansV: Does Wikipedia help?

Yes. And No. I was fine until I reached the “Square recess dimensions”, which told me that there were tables of numbers related to the #number code, but the various colours threw me. (Later: BobArchell’s reference told me that these colours represent Masonry plug size”. Also “gauge relates to the thickness of a screw’s shank or body and only relates to imperial sized screws”) My wood-screws don’t have colours.

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The column “Screw sizes” told me that #8 and #10 fit the same (orange-handled) screwdriver and that the #6 is different and fits the green-handled screwdriver That was encouraging confirmation to what I had discovered by empirical means. The image shows that the socket takes up a larger proportion of the head area for the #8 than it does for the head area of the #10. I can now tell that I have different guage screws just by looking at the socket-to-head-area ratio. I can eyeball that.

Leif: Or this: https://www.diynot.com/tools-and-materials/screw-sizes/

Yes. This took me into a study of facets of screws – Round head vs. Countersunk, length, diameter and, of course, socket size.

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I pulled out the #8 and #10 screws used in the first image and can see that the smooth part of the shaft of the #10 has a diameter greater than that of the #8.
I am a hobby-carpenter, so my work is either bashing together a sieve for the garden OR putting up extra shelves in a linen closet. My main concern is that I use just one type of screwdriver on any one job.

BobArch2: https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions ... crew-sizes For your reading pleasure…

Good old stackexchange! Now I know what the second number will be (as in 6-32) if ever I see it – threads per inch. I should pay more attention to this, as the bulk of my screwing is done by hand, so a simple fastening serves me better with 20 threads per inch than with 32 threads per inch. FWIW I was taught to hammer screws into softwood, using a screwdriver only to extract them, but ten turns on a -10 will extract the screw faster than 32 turns on a -32, and it is the slowness of the movement of the hands that counts here.

BobH I think it will suit all of your screwdriver needs plus give you several sizes of nut driver.

Thanks Bob, and I have twice had that sort of device, but in this case it helps me not much. Once I have chosen the screws, I choose the screwdriver and use it for the rest of the job. Same thing here – choose the bit and insert it, and then use it for the rest of the job. In the past I have been annoyed at the sloppiness of the fit of the bit in the chuck, but that might have been because way back then I was cheap, and chucks were new.
When I am ordering a jar of 1,000 screws online and the store is out of #8s, I know now that a jar of #10s will do just as well, and all the screws on the job will use the same screwdriver/bit.

Graeme: I never did find out what the 8, 10 and 12 diameter numbers meant!

Well, Graeme, now you and I are both educated by the smart members of Eileen’s Lounge, so, I’m glad I asked!

Thanks to all of you who responded.
Cheers, Chris

[Graeme]

I did find this:

"The number “10” is a size designator with no numerical meaning."

Which of course doesn't help at all!

Graeme

[ChrisGreaves]

"The number “10” is a size designator with no numerical meaning." Which of course doesn't help at all!

Five weeks ago I asked my neighbour David (knows everything of a practical nature) what the #6, #8, and #10 meant and he grunted from underneath his daughter's car "Size!", which, to be frank, didn't improve my mood at all.

I believe that the #6, #8, and #10 are the results of a function that maps various characteristics of a wood screw. Also that part of that mapping involves a lookup table. So in my mind I have not yet got a simple way of mapping ("reverse engineering") the numbers back to the actual screw.
Cheers, Chris

[Leif]

Assuming Karen has come back to you with an answer, a couple of possibly useful links:

Screws Buying Guide | Screwfix
and
Understanding US Screw Sizes - Home Improvement Stack Exchange - which includes this handy tip:

Back in the last century when we were not sure of a screw's gauge, a reliable rule of thumb was to measure the diameter of the countersunk head in inches. Deduct from that measurement 1/16", and then count the number of 1/32" remaining. So a screw head with a diameter of 1/4" was a 6 gauge, 5/16" was an 8 gauge, 3/8" was a 10 gauge and so on.

[BobH]

Thanks Bob, and I have twice had that sort of device, but in this case it helps me not much. Once I have chosen the screws, I choose the screwdriver and use it for the rest of the job. Same thing here – choose the bit and insert it, and then use it for the rest of the job. In the past I have been annoyed at the sloppiness of the fit of the bit in the chuck, but that might have been because way back then I was cheap, and chucks were new.
When I am ordering a jar of 1,000 screws online and the store is out of #8s, I know now that a jar of #10s will do just as well, and all the screws on the job will use the same screwdriver/bit.

When one buys a cheap tool one regrets it and feels pain each time it's used. I subscribe to the theory wrt tools that one buys the best and feels the pain only once and the pleasure thereafter with each use.

[ChrisGreaves]

When one buys a cheap tool one regrets it and feels pain each time it's used. I subscribe to the theory wrt tools that one buys the best and feels the pain only once and the pleasure thereafter with each use.

Hi Bob; I agree with you that in a context this is true, That said I see two contexts.
Right now I am considering becoming the proud owner of a roto-tiller. Never having used, let alone owned one, Which One To Buy?

Context2: In this first context "never having used/owned" I learned fifty years ago to buy the cheapest beginner-level model I can find, in this case $US 620. (Add shipping, taxes and think $cdn 800). Hiring a labourer to dig my 24’16’ raised bed three times over (to mix in the soil, compost crust, sawdust etc) would cost me way more than $800, so if it works it has paid for itself. If it doesn’t work well, I’ve lost $800 but gained knowledge.
Context1: If it does work, it might last me one or two years, at which time I will know that roto-tilling is a good fit for an old man like me, and can then make a decision about which superior model to invest in. This is what I would call the second context: the position that I am now self-educated in what works for me. For rototillers, do I want a model that can break sod, deal with rocks and aspen-roots? Ride-on? Width of cut an option (the Honda models seem all to be nine-inches wide)? And so on.

In terms of screwdrivers, what works for me is to have a single screwdriver for The Job and not fiddle around with bits. My orange-handled Roberston #8 and #10 wood-screw collection reflects this. My green-handled Roberston #6 wood-screw collection is the second part of my wood-screw collection. I will use a rigid screwdriver, from the two I need, depending on the job. I am moving right away from Phillips and flat-blade for all new projects; simplify, simplify, simplify.
A set of twelve(?) bits when I can reduce my outdoor construction projects to just two screwdrivers seems like overkill to me.
Cheers, Chris

[GeoffW]

That's fine if you are only going to use them on new projects. However, for me, I'm often finding things which need to be done on existing items, and those pesky things never conform to a limited number of items of equipment. This is where something with interchangeable bits such as Bob's come into their own - actually, with a range of sizes. Probably 90% of those sizes I'll never use, but when I need a size I've never used before, I don't want to be taking a trip down to the hardware store to get yet another screwdriver. I don't need great quality, as I use each piece so seldom- but having the piece I need in almost all circumstamces is priceless.

[ChrisGreaves]

That's fine if you are only going to use them on new projects....

Agreed.
From time to time I am given an old vacuum cleaner or similar that I cannibalize for bits and pieces. A multi-bit 'driver would come in handy for that, mainly because cannibalizing is a winter-time project on the kitchen bench, and I don't keep a large stock of tools inside. Add two crescent spanners and a large and heavy claw hammer and I'd be in business.

Most of my activity is in the yard is screwing/bolting together bits of scrap wood to make a frame to hold a ...
Going forward I have settled on #8 and #10 Robertson screws, and full-thread 2", 4", and 6" 1/4-inch bolts, washers, and nuts.
Cheers, Chris

[BobH]

Hmmm. One wonders if the # values don't represent wire sizes. They seem to follow that pattern, and I think screws might be made from rods that are simply hardened wires. Of course, if my hunch is correct, the larger the number the smaller the diameter and vice versa.

[ChrisGreaves]

Hmmm. One wonders if the # values don't represent wire sizes. They seem to follow that pattern, and I think screws might be made from rods that are simply hardened wires. Of course, if my hunch is correct, the larger the number the smaller the diameter and vice versa.

To the best of my limited etc etc. The #numbers refer to the bit size - the area of the square bit that fits in the square hole.
At one stage a week or so ago I thought of labeling my solid-piece Robertson screwdrivers as #10, #8, #6 and so on, then thought that was pointless; I need only two Robertson screwdrivers anyway (for all my regular, new, hobby work)

My guess is that you guys (Texas, USA) don't use Robertson screws, but if you ever find one lying around the ranch, trot into your local hardware store and try matching it against the Robertson screwdrivers.
If they have any
Cheers, Chris

[BobH]

I have a whole rack of trays with Robertson screws. There's a store called McFeely's that sell them. I stocked up some years ago. I have drivers and driver bits for my electron burning tools.

Texans aren't backwards, Chris, just braggadocious.

[ChrisGreaves]

Texans aren't backwards, Chris, just braggadocious.

Hi Bob. I thought that in the USA the preference was for Phillips-type fasteners. I thought too that Roberstons were generally unavailable.

Cheers, Chris

[ChrisGreaves]

The Algorithm told me to watch this video on screw threads (Ccoarse vs Fine) before I went to bed, but I defied The Algorithm and posted this here, before going to bed.
Cheers, Chris

[BobH]

You Rebel, you!