USB3.0 cables?

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ChrisGreaves
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USB3.0 cables?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

I am experiencing problems with my Acer Travelmate P2 recognising USB devices - 64GB memory key, external CD drive, external 1TB HDD, and I am trying to track down the recognition problem (BIOS? UEFI? Win10, Acer hardware etc.)
In This Comments section I note just over half-way down the page:-

“Except that USB 3.0 made to use different cables.” (MIKE says: July 22, 2020 at 5:54 am

I recall operating differences with my flip-phone charger cable some five or six years ago.
I am using the USB cable supplied with the external CD drive, but an older cable with the 1TB HDD.

Now I am wondering whether my experimental changes must include permutations amongst my cables, and the set of USB ports on the Acer (2 at 2.0 and one at 3.0 as I understand it).

I have attached a zipped copy of my Acer System Summary text file.

Thanks for any elucidation.
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John Gray
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by John Gray »

Chris: have a read through this, which should tell you more than you ever wanted to know...!
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

John Gray wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 10:54
Chris: have a read through this, which should tell you more than you ever wanted to know...!
Well, John; as usual; you are right again!

The article DID tell me more than I ever wanted to know, let alone needed to know. But it answered my question (",,, whether my experimental changes must include permutations amongst my cables, and the set of USB ports on the Acer ... ") partially.
The USB 2.0 Connectors is colored white or black inside, while the USB 3.0 is colored blue inside.
I have the 64GB memory key with me; it has a blue connector. So 3.0.
I have the LGK30 phone cable with me. White connector. So the cable is a 2.0 cable, 4-wire only.
The memory key would transfer ten times as fast with a 3.0 (9 wire cable), but it will transfer only at 2.0 speeds with a 2.0 cable, regardless of whether it is plugged into a 3.0 or 2.0 port. Is that correct?

I won't be able to inspect the Acer ports until I get home from dog-sitting.
usb-2-0-vs-usb-3-0-3.png
This connector confused me for a while; I can't ever recall seeing that three-holer sort before. maybe it is an Apple-connector.

Speed is not the issue here. My concern is a logical one: Do I need to have a USB3.0 device as the target of a bootable recovery medium. That is, to what extent might the software creating the recovery medium depend on a USB3.0?
I gather that it shouldn't matter at all, since speed (and price) is the only real difference between 2.0 and 3.0 for me.
But I find myself wondering whether some brilliant soul at Acer or Microsoft decided that by now everyone should be using the 10x faster 3.0 devices.

More: It seems to me that a 2.0 cable would mask or hide the capabilities of a 3.0 device at the peripheral end. That is, it's all very well having a 3.0 external drive (CD or HDD), but a 2.0 cable renders the 3.0 peripheral device as effective as as its 2.0 device counterpart.
The corollary is that it would be senseless to buy a 3.0 drive for its 10x speed and then hook it up with a 2,0 cable. Or hook it up with a 3.0 cable to a 2.0 port on the computer.

Price, as I hinted above, is not an issue here; my local question focuses on whether or not there may be a dependence on the device being seen as a 3.0. My 3.0 key plugged into a 2.0 port may be seen as not-a-3.0-key device; which means that I should be careful about where I plug in the key, and that should I use a 3.0 cable, I should try to plug it into a 3.0 port rather than a 2.0 port.

Compatibility: The article states that 3.0 ports and 3.0 devices are backwards compatible, but still I wonder whether today's "smart" software might insist on a device being seen as a 3.0 device. (I am, as you know, rapidly losing faith in New Technology; probably a sign of old age!)
usb-2-0-vs-usb-3-0-8.jpg
After seeing the above USB 3.0 vs 2.0, do you know their main differences?
I'm not sure!
I can spot the black and the blue connectors, but the left-hand connector is not white, is not black, and is not blue. It is PINK. Is it pink because the nice folks at SanDisk chose pink as the ink for the key (part of the logo is shown top-left), or does pink count as "neither black nor white"? In which case, according to my Maths teacher Mr Brian Feld, it is perhaps a 3.0 device.

Gord Campbell stated "Campbell's law" back in the 90s: "Eighty Three percent of the time, it's the cable!"

Cheers
Chris
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John Gray
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by John Gray »

My Rule of Thumb is that you will get USB 3.0 transfer speeds if, and only if:
* the laptop/PC port is 3.0
* the cable is 3.0
* the attached device is 3.0
Should any of those three be USB 2.0, then the transfer speed will be no higher than 2.0 speeds, which is 'backward compatibility'.

Q. Do I need to have a USB 3.0 device as the target of a bootable recovery medium?
A. No, but it's best to use USB 3.0 if you want large backups to finish fairly rapidly.
Our similarly-sized servers take about 10 minutes to back up / image, but one which doesn't have USB 3.0 ports takes 29 mins!
Very, very, occasionally backups run at USB 2.0 speeds. That's computers for you!

SanDisk are being very silly with their Barbie plug - you should spurn such excrescences utterly!
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ChrisGreaves
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

John Gray wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 16:47
My Rule of Thumb is that you will get USB 3.0 transfer speeds if, and only if
Thank you John for this confirmation.
SanDisk are being very silly with their Barbie plug - you should spurn such excrescences utterly!
And thank you too for this fatherly advice :hailpraise: (grin!)
Cheers
Chris
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Argus
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

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My desktop case has black USB 3 ports*, purely a design choice; at the backplate it's standard colours, since on the motherboard.
(Asked in another thread; charging ports may come in a different colour.)

* I like it, it could be worse: "It’s the wild colour scheme that freaks me," said Zaphod whose love affair with this ship had lasted almost three minutes into the flight, "Every time you try to operate one of these weird black controls that are labelled in black on a black background, a little black light lights up black to let you know you’ve done it. What is this? Some kind of galactic hyperhearse?"
R5.jpg
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ChrisGreaves
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

Argus wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 21:47
My desktop case has black USB 3 ports*, purely a design choice; at the backplate it's standard colours, since on the motherboard.
Yes, Argus, but you get printed labels that read "2.0" and "3.0". My laptop is much shoddier :grin:
Bonavista_20200724_064622.JPG
Here is my USB3.0 (BLUE) port waiting for a thumb drive and yes, that is a thumb on the left.
Bonavista_20200724_064632.JPG
And here are my funereal 2.0 ports.
The 3.0 port is on the LHS of the laptop, the side I most commonly use, so my physical nature will lead me to use the 3.0 port by default.
Cheers
Chris
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BobH
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by BobH »

I've found that a white paint Sharpie works wonders for identifying cables. With some of the micro USB connectors, I've had trouble connecting without my glasses. A spot of white paint on the side that needs to face works wonders. I sometimes put a spot on the cable and on the device, matching the sides for the spots/dots.
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ChrisGreaves
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

BobH wrote:
24 Jul 2020, 18:57
I've found that a white paint Sharpie works wonders for identifying cables. With some of the micro USB connectors, I've had trouble connecting without my glasses. A spot of white paint on the side that needs to face works wonders. I sometimes put a spot on the cable and on the device, matching the sides for the spots/dots.
Be careful !! While this might satisfy your immediate requirements, it could have a Domino Effect.
Cheers
Chris
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Jay Freedman
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by Jay Freedman »

Argus wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 21:47
My desktop case has black USB 3 ports*, purely a design choice; at the backplate it's standard colours, since on the motherboard.
That looks like a Fractal Design case. Mine is an R4 that I built in 2014. The top looks similar, but the 3.0 USB ports are blue.
Fractal Design USB.jpg
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Argus
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Re: USB3.0 cables?

Post by Argus »

Jay Freedman wrote:
25 Jul 2020, 21:38
Argus wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 21:47
My desktop case has black USB 3 ports*, purely a design choice; at the backplate it's standard colours, since on the motherboard.
That looks like a Fractal Design case. Mine is an R4 that I built in 2014. The top looks similar, but the 3.0 USB ports are blue.
Fractal Design USB.jpg
Yep, as we've concluded before. It's a (Fractal Design) Define R5 (They are up to R7 now.) Your R4 is a very good case, a classic, and I was going to buy it, but the build was slightly delayed and I bought the R5; no magnets for front door; the new GP-14 fans; some extra space for SSDs at the back/other side; hidden vents at the top; bottom dust filter (covering full depth) removable from the front; some extra velcro for the cables; quick release key for one side panel (with new thumb screws hanging); three plates at the top cover vents for max. 140x3 fans or a 420 mm radiator; slimmed HDD/SSD cages for better airflow etc. As you very well know it's one of the more flexible cases; I think I could mount 9 140 mm fans in total. :laugh: or bunches of drives.
R5_side.jpg
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